St. Ann's Update: NYU's 26 Stories of Salvation

1.

Where do all these rich vapid teenagers come from? Why are they here? Where are they going? My guess is Murray Hill or Williamsburg, depending on putative political leanings.

2.

As a recent NYU alum, I would like to apologize for what my school is/has been doing to the neighborhood. I think the university needs to cap its student body and start a capital-building freeze.

But please, don't hate the students too much. Many of us come to town, fall in love with it, and do what we can to contribute to the city, not just party and annoy the neighbors.

3.

lovely. i can't wait till nyc becomes cincinnati.

4.

what is wrong with you people? equating NYU students with dull midwesterners? how are they really any different from the other 20something hipsters in the area? oh, right, they have nicer housing of which the tenement dwellers are all considerably envious.

5.

so obsessing over luxury condos selling for $9 million is fine, but when NYU builds a dorm for students who rent rooms for a few thousand a semester, the end of the neighbourhood is nigh. give me a break.

6.

Welcome to Cincinnati!

The "rich vapid teenagers" and the "20something hipsters" into which they mutate after graduation are, in fact, financed by parents who have become very wealthy on paper these last few years.

If the value of your home popped from $300k to $800k in 3-4 years, what would you, a self-respecting modern American, do? Why, take out a home equity loan on the difference, of course!

New hot tub, Hummer, plasma TV, why, hon, let's send the kids to college in New York City!

Also, NYU isn't building a single dorm. NYU is turning a whole neighborhood into a dorm and, in doing so, is transforming it into one giant Bleecker Street. Sad.

7.

My parents worked very hard to send me to NYU and saved money for a long time so that I could have the best education they could afford and live in New York City. Not everyone at NYU is a rich midwesterner. In fact, most of the people I know who went to NYU were middle class and not wealthy by any means. I think I may have met only three or four people while I was at NYU that were very wealthy. Sigh. It is sad that so many people treat NYU students like rich, evil nimwits.

8.

Walked past St Ann's last night. It was draped in that black netting they put up before demolition, and there were signs saying "No Parking Tues Nov 8: Crane." So I guess today's the day (the building next door came down a few months ago).

It was eerie looking - you could see the churchy outline, and old diamond-shaped window panes reflecting street lights through the black mesh. A skilled photographer with a tripod could have gotten a cool photo out of it. Wonder if any of the artsy kids from the New School dorm across the way got one.

9.

ahh. at least city college is keeping it real. ;)

10.

I go to the New School, which has a dorm across the street. I heard we were in some sort of bidding war with NYU (what a surprise who won) as to who could turn St. Ann's into a dorm. So it's doubly disappointing.

As a native New Yorker, I've always had quite a bit of resentment for the suburban kids coming in and living in a nice neighborhood with a good amount of space on Mommy and Daddy's dollar, while the rest of us wouldn't dream of having our own bedrooms, let alone our own apartments at age 18 without working our asses off.

A big university with a "campus" doesn't really belong downtown anyway. Space is at too much of a premium.

11.

I go to the New School, which has a dorm across the street. I heard we were in some sort of bidding war with NYU (what a surprise who won) as to who could turn St. Ann's into a dorm. So it's doubly disappointing.

As a native New Yorker, I've always had quite a bit of resentment for the suburban kids coming in and living in a nice neighborhood with a good amount of space on Mommy and Daddy's dollar, while the rest of us wouldn't dream of having our own bedrooms, let alone our own apartments at age 18 without working our asses off.

A big university with a "campus" doesn't really belong downtown anyway. Space is at too much of a premium.

12.

How does anyone determine what "deserves" to take up space downtown? Oh, there's not enough space for residential enclaves; they ought to be north of 59th street. Office buildings? Shouldn't they be in midtown? What fallacious logic. Not only is there little reason why an academic institution (including your own New School, which you curiously believe should remain) should not be in the neighbourhood, but it is unthinkable that it should be called upon to leave when it undoubtedly enriches the area by providing countless jobs, customers, and intellectual capital. The area below 14th Street (and its recent success) owes a significant amount of its raison d'etre to NYU and other institutions which cluster nearby.

13.

When were you at NYU Smitty? I graduated from WSUC in 1981 -- there were three undergraduate dorms -- Rubin, Brittany, and Weinstein. It was a big commuter school then, but there was still a fairly large nitwit contingent.

And no, most NYU students are not very wealthy (the ones that are don't live in the dorms), but they are rich and dumb enough to be annoying, particularly when they act like the whole Union Square/Fourth Ave/Third Ave area is their college campus.

14.

i LOVE murray hill!!!

15.

Cheers to NYU for this. You people who don't like it can move somewhere else. The fact is that NYU makes the whole area better by gentrifying it. Today Greenwich Village/Wash Sq. Park is one of the toniest areas in the city because of NYU, no doubt it would still be permeated with filth if it wasn't for NYU's campus building there. The same argument can be made for Union square.

And what's up with all this midwest bashing? The fact that NYU attracts students from all over the globe is a good thing. Isn't having all different types of people one of the things that makes this city great? Surely midwesterners ought to be included in this. FYI, I'm a 3rd generation native Manhattanite who lives in NYU dorms, so I'm willing to bet I have much more of a connection to the city than most of you who complain about suburban kids moving in.

To the guy who goes to the "New" School: Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Those dull suburbanites you refer to are your classmates, not NYU students who are among the best and brightest in the nation.

16.

Being a third generation Manhattanite, Blake, I'm sure you're familiar with what's known as the "Gold Coast" -- those townhouses and luxury apartment buildings on and just off Fifth Avenue from 1 and 2 Fifth up to 12th - 13th St., including the Bossert, between 8th and 9th. This area has always been tony and expensive, even when the surrounding area was much less so(does anyone remember Nathan's at 8th St and 6th Ave, now a Barnes and Noble?).

As I said, I attended NYU from 1977 - 1981 and lived in Weinstein. The surrounding area (apart from the above-mentioned protected zone) was scummy then, NYU presence aside. Most of the city was scummy. I really don't think NYU's encroachment on surrounding areas is the sole or even main reson for their improvement, although constructing ugly dorm after ugly dorm is a questionable improvement.

But it's not just NYU -- so the Palladium is now a dorm; the Filmore East is now a rental apartment building. And I'm perfectly willing to live with Midwesterners in my midst as long as they lower their voices and dress better.

NYU students are among the best and brightest in the nation? Interesting -- I agree it's a good school (my alma mater), and has some exceptionally gifted students and outstanding programs, and their admissions have become more selective over time, but I'd say you're being a bit generous here. Or your definition of the best and brightest is a lot looser than others.

17.

Like it or not but higher education is one of the major - and very few growing - segments of the NYC economy. Universities and colleges are some of the largest employers in NYC and faculty and students have an enormous impact on the arts and commerce in this town.

18.

Like it or not but higher education is one of the major - and very few growing - segments of the NYC economy. Universities and colleges are some of the largest employers in NYC and faculty and students have an enormous impact on the arts and commerce in this town.

19.

Like it or not but higher education is one of the major - and very few growing - segments of the NYC economy. Universities and colleges are some of the largest employers in NYC and faculty and students have an enormous impact on the arts and commerce in this town.

20.

Babs: Fifth ave around that area has always been nice I agree, but it's well known Washington Square and other parts of Greenwich Village were pretty crappy before NYU took over the area. Though NYU's campus building is not the only reason for the area's improvment (Rudy's policies and a better economy are others), it was clearly a significant factor.

Ugly? I think the Kimmel Center is awesome, Palladium is really nice, though I'd say University Hall is too plain looking. Stupid concerns about whether a building looks good are irrelevant since it's all a matter of opinion. What some fail to understand that it's not solely the dorm construction that improves the area. It's rather the infusion of NYU students from all over the globe that improve both the demographics and economy of the area.

"And I'm perfectly willing to live with Midwesterners in my midst as long as they lower their voices and dress better."

What kind of arrogant statement is that?

P.S.: NYU has changed a lot from '77-81, it has much better students (no offense), professors, and facilities. Furthermore, NYU is more global in scope rather than tri-state/northeast focused as it used to be in your day. I went to one of the most selective boarding schools in the country, and my high school now sends numerous people to NYU every year, whereas 25 years ago very few would have attended. However I will agree that Weinstein is still the least luxerious and probably the hardest boozing dorm. I lived in Hayden freshman year and loved it.

21.

Not arrogant, Blake -- ironic or sarcastic (but maybe they don't teach those terms at NYU anymore; too offensive to those corn-fed sensibilities they're welcoming from all over the globe).

And actually when I lived at Weinstein it was the newest and most luxurious of NYU's undergraduate dorms -- it had singles! I very much enjoyed it, although it did develop a roach problem my senior year...

Hayden was the law school dorm and was reputed to be very nice (doesn't it have a pool, too?).

And exclusive boarding school graduates are not necessarily among the best and the brightest unless you're talking about their connections.

NYU has done a fantastic image make-over in order to attract those people who wouldn't have been caught dead associating with the average tri-state area, possibly non-Christian, middle-to-upper-middle class type who formerly made up the majority of its student body. It has done this by transforming itself from (as they still call themselves) "a private university in the public service" to the second-largest landowner in the city (after Trinity Church) in order to create a safe, sanitized playground for its new clients. And the people and institutions destroyed by its efforts (goodbye The Bottom Line) weren't rich or suburban-looking enough to stay around anyway.

22.

Babs-Weinstein is now an all freshman dorm and no longer has singles. Out of NYU's undergrad dorms, Weinstein is now least luxurious one, but it's still not too shabby by college dorm standards. Weinstien does have a great dining hall and an awesome food court which includes a Quiznos though. Weinstein also tends to attract a hard drinking type these days and the Weinstien guys seem to be the first ones to fill up NYU juants like Josie Woods and Bar None on a Thursday night.

I don't think you know much about boarding schools. Are there a lot of jet-setters still there? Of course, but they have very competitve merit based admissions and a significant portion of the student body at these private high schools get financial aid. I would venture that places like Andover and Lawrenceville are indeed more economically and ethnically diverse than the average tri-state area public high school in an affluent suburb.

You are way too cynicical re: NYU. NYU's student body is stronger and more diverse than it ever was decades ago when diversity was confined to the different boroughs and towns of LI and Westchester. NYU is very much a national and international (not regional) school now, and it's 100% for the better. Having greater geographical diversity enhances the classroom experience, not make it more insular as you seem to imply.

"in order to create a safe, sanitized playground for its new clients."

There is nothing wrong with safe and sanitized.

23.

There is if it also equals soulless and suburban (aren't we alliterative today)?

Yeah, I remember when Weinstein did away with the singles, a few years after I left -- those A wing singles were tiny as is; I can't imagine sharing them!

The food was probably the worst part -- it was ARA (now Aramark), but a Quiznos -- again the suburbanization of the urban university continues.

And I'm not talking about jet-setters at boarding schools, I'm talking about legacies, and those who are encouraged to make a small donation to help their admissions chances, etc. And this still does go on all the time, despite their much-vaunted efforts to encourage diversity through the attraction of "deserving" scholarship students (who come to the admissions committees' attention in the first place through their connections). And as I'm sure you're aware your average middle class or lower high school student hasn't even heard of your cherished diverse boarding schools. And who said anything about an affluent suburban high school -- I said middle-to-upper-middle class -- your affluent suburban schools are more upper-middle-class-to-rich, aren't they?

Sorry, I'd prefer bad food and a dicey neighborhood to a replica of a suburban food court set down in a stage set of New York City. But it does seem that a lot of the new people moving here think this is the way to go.

Which is why I avoid these areas as much as possible (not that there's any real reason to go there anyway).

24.

Soulless?? What exactly does that mean? That's such a vague term with no concrete meaning. By your reasoning, the whole city which is filled with McDonald's and Starbucks is and always was "suburban and souless". What you're talking about is a much broader concept than the issue at hand. Do you prefer commercialization in the form of Times Square porn shops rather than well dressed NYU kids hanging out at the school's Starbucks? It seems to me you do.

The food is quite good, it's probably another thing that's improved since your NYU days.

I take "affluent" to mean upper middle class and better. The point is the same anyway you look at it, top private schools have much more interesting and diverse student body than those public schools found in the typical above average tri-state area suburb.

"I'd prefer bad food and a dicey neighborhood"

Thank God you're a minority in Manhattan because gentrification has been a very good thing for the city.

25.

Well-dressed NYU students? That is an oxymoron.

Who said that the choice was Starbucks vs. porn anyway? How about The Bottom Line (a musical monument, but probably gobbled up by the purple neighborhood eater before your time) vs. yet another NYU-students-only facility?

And if they'd stay in their little suburban enclave and not progressively push out what little authenticity remains in this part of the city that would be one thing, but they insist on inflicting themselves on the rest of us, who are not, believe it or not, the minority you believe us to be. Check out this article: http://www.nynewsday.com/news/local/manhattan/nyc-nyu0717,0,7017067.story?coll=nyc-moreny-headlines

>>"the whole city which is filled with McDonald's and Starbucks is and always was 'suburban and souless'"

Guess what? There weren't always Starbucks on every corner in the city. There weren't any at all. Starbucks hadn't been invented.

But what puzzles me most is your story of how all these college freshmen are drinking heavily. I thought the legal drinking age in this state was 21. Maybe the police need to spend more time at Josie Woods and Bar None. Thanks for the tip. I notice they got Gonzalez y Gonzalez the other day for serving liquor to minors, let's hope they're able to make it uptown a little bit.

Talking to University officials probably wouldn't help -- I guess they'd prefer students getting drunk and trashing the surrounding neighborhood to splattering their brains out all over the floor at Bobst. Really doesn't give the school a good image at all, might deter some of those midwestern and boarding school types who pay those big bucks.

26.

I'm a recent NYU alum and I am familiar with the Bottom Line episode which took place during my time there. The bottom line is that The Bottom Line was a piece of garbage that had trouble attracting people, and hence it couldn't pay its rent and failed as a business--it happens every day in America, nothing special. NYU had no duty whatsoever to help out a private business that couldn't afford to stay in NYU's building anymore, those who suggest otherwise are delusional and have no concept of reality.

>>Like it or not but higher education is one of the major - and very few growing - segments of the NYC economy. Universities and colleges are some of the largest employers in NYC and faculty and students have an enormous impact on the arts and commerce in this town.>>

That is spot on.

>>>Well-dressed NYU students? That is an oxymoron.>>>>

Umm you seem fairly retarded, it's a large and diverse school, there are plenty of well dressed people and others as well.

>>But what puzzles me most is your story of how all these college freshmen are drinking heavily.>>

Drinking is a part of the college experience genius, it happens no matter where one goes to school whether it be in New York or North Dakota. Many of these G.V. bars wouldn't even be in business if it weren't for NYU students, they know it, the cops know it, everyone else knows it. Puzzled about college students drinking huh? In other news that may puzzle you: The pope is catholic.

27.

Gee, NYU man, thanks for your powerful insights. If I'm retarded you may need to examine the value of your newly-minted diploma -- I graduated cum laude from your alma mater. And Blake, what was that you said about admissions standards having gone up? Case in point that apparently they haven't.

And drinking is part of the college experience, maybe, but bars are breaking the law by serving these people and should be punished for it. The law was changed (it was 18 when I was there) for this very reason -- too much college drinking (and driving outside of the city). Whether it's been effective or not isn't the question - but perhaps it would be more effective if it were enforced.

28.

Oh nice work there "Babs" [I hope you sense the sarcasm]. You address one little aspect of my post that highlighted your stupdity and do it my pointing out something meaningless. NYU in the '70s was a very different place and I'd love to know what you do now, probably something far less impressive than today's NYU grads. I graduated NYU in '04, doubled in math and politics, and currently attend an Ivy League law school, so don't give me some utter nonsense about admission standards when chances are you probably would have been rejected had you applied to NYU today.

Whether the law gets enforced and bars get in trouble isn't going to change the fact that college drinking exists and will continue since this is a cultural issue you moron [did prohibition work?]. At NYU, I probably drank as much or even more in the dorms than I did at bars. You see I was one of those "midwestern kids" you love to insult, but I was there on financial aid and didn't have $300 a night club/bar tabs like some of my well heeled classmates at NYU.

By your silence, I'll just assume you agree with the rest of my post; i.e. The Bottom Line, and colleges having a positive impact on the area.

29.

Babs: It was you who implied the porn vs. starbucks choice when you stated you prefered a "dicey neighborhood".

The fact that Starbucks didn't always exist doesn't change the issue of whether you think the city is currently "suburban and souless" since there is a Micky D's/Starbucks on every corner. Nice avoding of the central issue by attempting to shift the focus to minutia.

"if they'd stay in their little suburban enclave and not progressively push out what little authenticity remains in this part of the city that would be one thing, but they insist on inflicting themselves on the rest of us"

I don't get it. Again, what are these vague references to "authenticity"? Crack dens, porn shops? Drug dealers and hookers in the park pre-NYU? This native New Yorker says Greenwich Village is better than it's ever been, and NYU gets a lot of credit for that.

NYU Man: CAS '07 here. What dorms did you live in? I was in Hayden, Water St., and currently in Carlyle where we have frequent keggers. How do you find law school? I'm thinking of the law school route myself, my other consideration is investment banking, guess we'll see how things play out.

Nice response to babs btw, she seems bitter and arrogant.

30.

Oh, how quaint are the verbal fisticuffs of The Down-Town!

31.

Dicey doesn't always equal porn, Blake -- actually there weren't any porn shops around NYU when the area was less sanitized than now. What there was was The 3 Zs greek coffee shop on University Place, great for cheap breakfasts, The Cookery (now a BBQs, yeah!) where jazz great Alberta Hunter performed during the last years of her life, fabulous independent bookstores on Eighth St, a $3.50 double feature of classic cinema at Cinema Village, the Bleecker Street Cinema, Bleecker Bob's records, and the Electric Lady recording studios started by Jimi Hendrix. The dicey part was the bums at Nathan's (not dangerous, just smelly) and the oregano dealers in Washington Square Park. Crack hadn't broken out of the ghettoes and I never saw a hooker in Washington Square Park.

And by authenticity I mean the sort of independent businesses mentioned above, not the suburban headquartered franchise chains that now proliferate. If I wanted to live in Ohio I'd move there. And yes, the city was less soulless when there wasn't a Starbucks on every corner (or a Subways or a Quiznos or whatever your chain of the week is).

And when is pre-NYU? The Washington Square campus was founded at NYU's inception in 1831, although it also had a campus in The Bronx. So I don't think that you (or even your grandparents) could remember Washington Square pre-NYU.

And NYU man your insults reveal what a pathetic soul you are. Actually, upon graduation I was accepted to an Ivy League law school but chose to accept a position in commercial banking because I was on financial aid and needed to work. I followed this up with an MBA part-time at NYU, followed by fifteen years spent in (gasp!) investment banking, five of them overseas (I specialized in making life hell for arrogant boarding school snobs). I now (very successfully thank you) run my own business. However, I don't judge the impressiveness of a person's career path by the size of his or her salary as you seem to.

And I didn't dignify your comment about The Bottom Line with a response because of course it didn't attract your kind, but it did attract a loyal following right up to the end. NYU evicted them even after all back rent was paid because it wanted the space. Period.

Now you boys go back to your underage or just-barely-of-age drinking. My arrogant and bitter self is going to spend some time with the grown-ups.

32.

I guess Babs would prefer having "oregano" dealers to college students in the area. Sorry if they're mostly gone darling, if you look hard enough, I'm sure there are other places where you can buy these herbal refershments to toke, I mean stoke your hobby.

>>And by authenticity I mean the sort of independent businesses mentioned above, not the suburban headquartered franchise chains that now proliferate. If I wanted to live in Ohio I'd move there>>>

You're so elitist and uninformed babe. You have no clue what you are talking about. I'm certain you've never even set foot in Ohio. Trust me, even by your limosine liberal standards, small town Ohio is much less commercialized and "souless" than a place like Manhattan. The main streets of these Ohio towns do not have a Starbucks or large franchise headquarters on every corner, but for the most part there are mom & pop shops and small business. Watch "Supersize Me" by NYU alum Morgan Spurlock, Manhattan has more PER CAPITA McDonald's than any county in America.

>>However, I don't judge the impressiveness of a person's career path by the size of his or her salary as you seem to.>>>

When did I once mention salary?

Regarding the Bottom Line club, what you say is completely false, they never paid the back rent that they owed, they only offerred to pay a small portion of it. Furthermore, the Bottom Line wanted NYU to provide a lease in which the club would continue to pay below market rent. Surely, being an ex-ibanker, you understand and appreciate the concepts of "fair market value" and "time value of money".

Read more about it here (and this is from a source that's hardly considered sympathic to NYU):
http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_32/bottomline.html

>>My arrogant and bitter self is going to spend some time with the grown-ups.>>>

Good move, go engage in an argument you can win instead of being manhandled by those around 25 years younger than you.

Columbia Man: I engage in "verbal fisticuffs" with the Harlem, er Up Town as well, every day at CLS. Hello neighbor!

Blake: I had the Brittany/Carlyle combo. Carlyle was so awesome but I actually liked Hayden a lot more than Brittany for a freshman dorm so you're lucky. I also lived in Coral, so I caused a loto of mayhem in the Union Sq./Park Ave. south area in my day...some great times! Law school is rough the first year, but after that it's pretty smooth sailing. Good luck.

33.

NYU builds ugly, oversized buildings with no regard for the impact on the neighborhoods they enter. I don't know if their students, who I see everyday walking the streets like zombies on their cell phones, are any more vapid and self-absorbed than other college students, but there are far too many of them now clogging the streets of the EV/Union Square area.

I doubt the beneficial impact on the economy and I know NYU has reduced the quality of life in my neighborhood in the past 15 years.

34.

NYU, lawyers, investment bankers...please go back to Battery Park City, UWS and UES where you belong. You really have no idea how terminally boring you are. Watch "Friends," have some beers with your buddies, play some golf, marry your publicist girlfriends and then head out to the suburbs to spawn.

35.

NYU Needs the space. The school is overcrowded as it stands... not enough housing, study space, etc...

Cross your fingers that it becomes 26 stories of grad students.

36.

Stern MBA--The new residence hall will be for undergrads.

Wtf--What one person thinks is ugly another thinks is nice (e.g. the Kimmel center). This is just a matter of opinion and cannot be objectively measured.

Babs--You have a nice case of NIMBY syndrome. By living in Manhattan, you are tacitly accepting, even espousing all those starbucks, tall buildings, and corporate headquarters. It's likely you work in a tall building and a drink a starbucks every once in a while. Saying all that is fine as long as it's not near you is utter hogwash. It's akin to saying: "I like black people, so long as they don't live in my building". If you don't like the commercialization of New York, go live in the woods of Montana.

By pre-NYU, I meant before NYU's large scale campus building started, basically in the 1980's when NYU went from being a broke regional school to on the way to becoming a wealthy research university.

I don't know where you live, the all of Manhattan save Harlem is very expensive. You're not going to get things like $3 double features anymore, Manhattan's cost of living is so high and that's not NYU's fault. All those businesses you talk about couldn't cut it. They failed because they weren't good enough to attract customers (e.g. you're kind weren't enough to save the Bottom Line and that indicates you're a minority)..again, not NYU's fault. Btw, there are plenty of independent business by NYU, e.g. Rugby, Spice restuarant, Crepes places, organic food stores, many independent clothing stores, etc--though they might not attract your kind, they are there and doing quite well so don't be bitter about that. Saying NYU is nothing but franchies is wrong and ridiculous.

37.

Blake, etc.

Wake up! Washington Square Park is full of drug dealers and hoodlum types right now. I'm afraid to walk through it at night. (What happened to all the cameras?)

As for Greenwich Village -- back in the days (1950's, 60's) GV was a really cool place. Obviously, NYU wasn't any bigger then. GV had a phase after Times Square was torn down and rebuilt into offices and hotels with huge glitzy signs (i.e., very different from before) and the city closed the porn shops. Well, the hookers and all had to go somewhere and many of them picked GV. Too bad, but it wasn't going to last for ever. And NYU didn't have much to do with it one way or the other.

Now when I walk through GV the pushers don't bother me, it's the comedy club hawkers and the tourists. Still lot's of B&T. On many streets are "high end" sex shops selling devices for all those visitors.

And speaking of suburbanites -- you've guys have got it wrong. McDonalds and Starbucks offend suburban sensibilities, not New Yorkers who love fast food. It's like building contractors outside the city who think if a wall isn't perfectly flat (i.e., covered in sheetrock) there is something wrong about it. Plaster and crooked walls and fast food is perfectly city.

What offends the city is huge stores and malls. The city has been a place of smaller stores with a few beloved larged department stores. We all know the big stores, Kmart, Home Depot, Bed, Bath & Beyond, are gradually moving in. And that is a change to the feel (though it makes shopping easier).

Yes, I put my name as SOHO and it is doing just fine here without too much NYU to save us, thank you. Admittedly it's not much rag tag, in your face, NY and there are odles of (high end and foreign) tourists shopping in the new high end stores. It just an example of what life can be like without NYU dorms.

Saving grace: the tourists in SOHO are much more polite and well dressed than the ones in GV only a few blocks away.

Please note however, that I am not bothered by NYU building up 26 stories near Union Square. More power to them! Maybe the location's past as a church will even foster spirtuality during drinking parties.

38.

No NYU dorms in SoHo, "SOHO"? I happen to be sitting in the one on Broome Street. We haven't done anything to affect the neighborhood: We have no NYU flags flying outside and even have non-NYU tenants inside. I live next door to a family with small children; yeah, we're a crazy wild gentrifying bunch!

39.

Pretty much everyone in this thread is missing the point. New York isn't about entitling one group with the task of defining a neighborhood at the expense of others. It is about allowing a neighborhood to grow and change organically, nudged in certain directions by city planners, changes in immigration patterns and changes in the economic landscape.

NYU has disrupted this process in much the same way the original WTC did in the financial district 30 years ago. They have piggy-backed on the Giuliani/Bloomberg achievements and marketed the New York undergrad experience to a nation of kids eager to escape their heartland ennui and party it up in New York. Parents flush with new home equity funny money send those kids here, and they in turn bring the mall retailers.

The problem is, such an inbalance depends on the national imbalance of easy credit to survive. As the source for many of these funds disappears (the housing bubble home equity ATM), parents will no longer be able to afford to send their kids to places like New York for college. Just as buyers are looking for more value in their home purchases every day, so will parents look for better values in the second-largest household expenditure after housing - the kids' college. Young Stacy can scream and cry all she wants, she's going to state school, and she can party it up on her own dime after she graduates.

That's when NYU's business model will come undone, and like a traditional business, NYU will be forced to reduce costs and sell assets. As the student population falls, the national retailers who have moved into this neighborhood will leave very quickly, leaving a vacuum of empty retail space and tax revenue shortfall that will take time to replace.

Such radical, artificial changes destroy the spirit of community in such neighborhoods. Neighbors are replaced by nomads, both residents and retailers, who will abandon the area as soon as it is in their best interest to do so, or as soon as it is no longer perceived as a "cool" place to live. Unfortunately, neighbors are replaced by nomads in a heartbeat, but the reverse process can take decades.

40.

I just found this discussion, and L'Emmerduer, your logic is some of the stupidest I've ever seen. Your comments demonstrate you know nothing about NYU or even economics in general. I wonder where you went to school, probably not NYU.

A good portion of NYU's student body gets financial aid, and for the people that can pay NYU's $40,000+ price tag without even blinking, they are rich enough that the state of the real estate market or home equity is not going to affect their college choice. Also, NYU is committed to increasing financial aid for those that need it. The university is running a $2.5 billion campaign and $600M of that is going toward more financial and merit aid. NYU's business model isn't going anywhere and its financial security gets stronger and stronger every year thanks to generous donations by alumni and other friends. FYI, NYU is almost always in the top 10 or 15 universities when it comes to fundraising.

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I'd just like to know if anyone has any suggestions for housing for a young married couple moving to NYC whose wife will attend graduate school this June? Money is tight, so any ideas out there? Thanks!!

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I recently visited an NYU dorm... The dormroom consisted of two bedrooms, measuring ten feet by 15 feet each, and a living room measuring approximately 15 x 12 feet.. there was also a small kitchenette and a communal bathroom. As a real estate broker, I estimated that the market rate for the apartment given the size, location, and finishes, to be around 4000 thousand a month TOPS. Although these can be considered two bedrooms, the bedrooms were tiny and the living room was tiny as well. I am not even considering the communal bathroom thing. Now when I asked how much the dorms cost the students per month, they told me they each paid about 1350 a month... now 1350 times four is 5400, which means that NYU is recieving about 1400 dollars more per month on each unit than they should be. Isnt the point of a dorm to live economically while you are at school? You would think that with the $50,000+ they charge for tuition, they could at least charge MARKET rate for their housing...... If I could find people to pay that much for housing, I would wanna expand my portfolio of properties too...