Ask Curbed: My Broker Is a Salesperson

1.

there is really no difference, broker pays more for their lic. and more legal obligations if something goes wrong-each sales person lic. has to be held by a broker

2.

there is really no difference, broker pays more for their lic. and more legal obligations if something goes wrong-each sales person lic. has to be held by a broker

3.

There are two grades of real estate licenses in New York.

1) Salesperson- think of it as a Junior Driver's License, who legally requires the oversight by a licensed broker, and whom is responsible for a Salesperson's actions.

2) Broker - the full-grade real estate license, obtained after a minimum of 2 years of 'apprenticeship' and whom can oversee R.E. Salespersons.

But you already have figured this out.
Whats bothering you is that you have previously used the word "broker" in the vernacular, and now have realized a techinical, legal difference.

Unless you had certain expectations, and therefore demanded the expertise of, and only of a Licensed R.E. Broker do you have a legit gripe, and therefore case.

Otherwise you're like a guy who knowingly uses a homeopathic remedy or sees a chiropractor and then denies payment for services, because you thought you were getting the services of a "Doctor" in the legal, AMA-sanctioned sense.

4.

Basically, a salesperson can only work under the direct supervision of the broker that holds their license. So if you deal with a licensed salesperson you're already dealing with their broker. Also, commissions can only be paid to a broker, who would in turn pay their salesperson. Chances are, the broker is probably very busy and isn't familiar with the details of every transaction, which is why they hire salespeople. Thus, you'd probably get better service from your salesperson.

5.

Not so -- to become a broker you must first get a license as an agent/salesperson -- a 45-hour couse and state licensing test are required. Then, to become a broker, you must have a certain level of experience (counted in points, with 250 for a sale and 10 for a rental, etc. -- you need a total of 1750), take another 45 hour class, and pass another test.

That said, some agents just don't ever bother to go for their brokers' license -- it does cost more, and isn't necessary unless you intend to start your own firm.

I know many agents/salespeople (the terms are interchangeable) who are more professional, nicer, and more knowledgeable than some brokers I've met. Do you feel comfortable with this person? Than by all means stick with him/her.

If you try going directly to the seller's broker and if he or she is at all reputable, he or she will tell you to submit your offer through the agent you saw the place with -- and will call your agent and tell him/her this.

An exception to this is lawyers -- who automatically get a broker's license, even if they've never set foot in a property for sale or lease!

6.

And actually, in the big firms, the firms themselves (Corcoran, Halstead, etc.) are the brokers -- they may have associate brokers working for them, but their licenses, as well as those of the agents/salespeople, are held by the firm itself.

7.

Actually, most everytime we use the term broker to describe ourselves, most are actually salespeople. Broker just sounds better.

8.

The two titles are different but in your case they are interchangeable and it should have no affect on your offer.

You are free to do whatever you want in terms of using your agent to put the offer in or doing it yourself, as long as you have not signed an agreement with your agent that they will be representing you.

The seller's broker will be more than happy to accomdate you since it will mean a 4% commission that will directly go to them.

If the buying agent gets a wind of what you are doing expect them to call you and demand that you bring them in. If they still do not get a piece of the deal they will call their managers in and that is when things will get really messy.

The seller is responsible for paying everyone's commission. Buyers don't pay a dime unless an agreement was signed with their broker/agent.

9.

The email writer can look at the business card given to him/her by the agent. Generally it'll indicate either sales associate, associate broker, broker, vice president, senior vice president, executive vice president, managing director, Miss America, Winner of Curbed Broker Babe of the Year pageant....etc...

10.

If this person saw the property with the "salesperson" I feel like the salesperson should then be representing the buyer's side. This buyer should also understand that although a direct deal on the seller's broker -er- salesperson's part is always welcome (sometimes much more than 4%, sometimes the whole 6% to themselves) it isn't always in the best interest of the buyer to be represented by someone who's responsibility is to the seller. You should be represented.

11.

The buyer absolutely should have his/her own represntative -- and since he/she isn't paying anything (unless there's a signed agreement floating around), why not?

It would be a really not nice thing to go behind the back of the person who's represented him/her up to this point, and has no doubt put a lot of work into finding places, running comps, setting the buyer up w. mortgage brokers, lawyers, etc., and all just because of misunderstood terminology!

12.

By now you know that most real estate agents are salespersons, working for an employing broker such as Corcoran, Citi-Habitats, or Elliman.

You should DEFINATELY use the Salesperson that brought you to this apartment because he/she is the one that did the work to find the apartment for you. This is your Buyer Broker, who represents YOU, the buyer, in the would be transaction. He will also be responsible for negotiating to get you the lowest price and preparing the board package that you must hand in! Its not as simple as everyone thinks.

As your representative Buyer Broker, he is entitled to half, normally 3%, of the full commission that the Seller is to pay the brojer that was hired to market the property and find a buyer. Most transactions in NYC are Co-Brokes, which is why service and reputation are so important for us agents!

Plain & Simple:

Seller Broker: represents SELLER and has a fiduciary responsibility to get the seller the highest and best selling price.

Buyer Broker: represents BUYER and has a fiduciary responsibility to get the buyer the best value and price possible.

Be loyal. Most agents (salespersons) work very to build their business and find you the best property possible. Stick with the salespersons and let them do what probably is their full time job!

13.

You should screw the broker. Real estate brokers in NYC are the most useless bunch of overpaid scum, who would sell their own mother to get some cash. Give them a little of their own medicine.

14.

Death to the infidels!!! I should know, I've sold my mother for a lot of money. Yes, I would love to taste my own medicine. I wanna get screwed to satisfy you'll loyal holier than thou Curbed readers!

15.

I thought Lawyers were the most USELESS BUNCH OF OVERPAID SCUM? But you could be right, lawyers arent out there to screw you for money!

16.

Dance with the one that brung you I say.

17.

Ever had sex with a monkey?

I bet most of you have.

18.

There really isn't a problem here.

UrbanDigs gave you good advice.

In the end it's all about the apartment, not the broker.

You'll still have to pay the commission to someone. The guy who walked you around all over the city is the one who really deserves the commission - possibly to be split with the guy who showed the apartment to 50 different people before he got to you.

Anyway, if you did try to go around the 'salesperson' who showed the apartment to you, you wouldn't be doing anyone any favors. He could legally sue for his half of the commission (assuming you signed a broker's aggreement before he showed you around) and you'd lose your advocate (the buyer's broker).

Stick with your 'salesperson' - you'll be fine.

19.

Good that this question has finally come up....hoping that sq. footage inflation is next. NY State recognizes only broker, assoc broker and salesperson. When someone is a VP or Senior Assoc or SVP this has no meaning to the State. Most of the 'brokers' working in NYC, I'd say about 90%, are salespeople. The term broker has become part of the venacular. Has no real bearing on competence.

NY State licensing is quite easy. Almost anyone can become a salesperson, and becoming an assoc broker is not much harder. Most salepeople become assoc brokers to satisfy the continuing education part of the license requirement, not from any real desire to run their own firm.

Think of it this way, at Corcoran and Elliman there are approx 2500 salespeople, but only one 'broker' per firm. Judge your own agent by their ability and experience, not what their card says.

20.

Leaving the legal issues aside, the fact that someone would pose such a question show just how bereft our society is when it comes to plain and simple ethics. If someone spends their time showing you apartments and you even think about cutting them out of the deal in the end, what does that say about you? Are you the kind of person that would toss out your parents like worn out shoes when they were done raising you? It's really sad that people have so little concern for one another!

21.

If you go behind the "salespersons" back, then you are the scum....give the person the $$ that is due to them! Its only fair! Salespeople work for brokers, and the person representing the home you are thinking of purchasing is a "salesperson" as well!

22.

Man...someone had a tough experience: "All brokers are SCUM who would sell out their own mothers." What, exactly, is our own "medicine?"

As a buyer, you pay no commission whether you have a broker or not. Screwing over your salesperson does two things: 1.) give more money to the sellers' bkr, 2.) prove you are a nasty and vindictive individual...and for what? Because your bkr used a term that is completely interchangeable? I hope it's a Co-op and you do screw him over and get drowned in all the paper-work...

23.

I'm kinda surprised at how vague all these postings are, so let's go back to the books.

*No thanks for the homeopath analogy; people who work in real estate are LICENSED, state-by-state. In addition, we're members of a national trade group, the National Association of Realtors. Oversight is conducted by local boards; if you're in NYC (and it sounds like you are) start with the Real Estate Board of New York: www.rebny.com.

Second, it is not guesswork what your agent owes you. A buyer's agent owes you four SPECIFIC things: the fiduciary duties of care, confidentiality, loyalty and disclosure.

* CARE means the representative is not supposed to be negligent -- for example, when you hand the rep a check, the check is supposed to go into an escrow acccount, not into a swiss bank account.

* CONFIDENTIALITY means if you tell the agent you're looking for a $500K apartment, but you're going through a divorce and you could go up to $700K, and the agent is negotiating to buy you a $600K apartment, they're not supposed to tell the seller that you'd be "in a distressed situation and happy to pay $700K."

* LOYALTY means that if you're working with the rep and you two see a $1M place on Perry Street for $50K, the agent isn't supposed to buy that apartment for himself or herself. The agent should put your interest first.

* DISCLOSURE means the agent has to tell you everything material he or she knows about the transaction: Does the seller know of lead paint hazards? Are there condos going up next door that will block your view?

Whether there being lousy communication about your agent's title is a violation of disclosure really depends on other aspects of the relationship between you and your agent -- do you feel there's been a pattern of untruth, somehow? If so, call REBNY.

If not, ask yourself why, just as you're entering contract negotiations, you would want to ditch your trained negotiatior -- who many posters here have pointed out will be paid from the seller's pocket, not yours.

Since this is your first purchase, my guess would be some larger underlying issues are at play. (Buying a first home is pretty freaky, but you'll survive it, I promise!) Still, crap like this is the reason I don't work in NYC.

Alison Rogers
Member, North Central Jersey Association of Realtors
Front Porch Real Estate/Jordan Baris, Inc. Realtors

24.

Agent cares about one thing - their money, nothing else. Agents generally can't find any other work and go into real estate as a last resort. Poor education if any, usually female or bitch slapped males, "scummy" ie- find a way to rationalize everything they do.

You want to get your deal done right - go straight to the buyer/seller - you'll piss off the agent but the deal will get done faster, with less stress and in a way that is in the financial best interest of all concerned (buyer & seller) parties.

Especially in the NorthEast - they like to whip things into a frenzy and create some "problems" so they can solve them and "earn" their commission.

Beware in the affluent areas, the buyers/sellers wives try to add "value" to the transactions by attempting to play hard ball (of course, they have never earned a living in their lives and think they are going to save their husbands a few grand with their antics - they should stick to swallowing semen).

25.

Mabe the questioner is just guilty of being a stitler for form (nit-picker)and nothing worse.
Now that (s)he realizes that the misunderstanding "does not rise to the level of impeachment", I believe (s)he will do the right thing without our nailing her/him to the cross. Incidentally aldhough I am a broker, I mostly refer to myself as "agent" inasmuch as both broker and sales people are agents. By the way, since I charge a flat 1% finders fee to the seller, leaving a larger haggle room for the buyer and leaving myself out of the advocacy roll for either party. If warranted, I even lend-back that fee to the buyer. What's SCUMMY about that?