Open House Hangover: Harlem Threesome

1.

since when is a view of a wide boulevard displeasing? maybe looking at a brick wall is better?

2.

Tipster seems to be using "under 1,300 square feet" as a pejorative term; umm, isn't that pretty darn big by NY standards - and more than appropriate for the middle-income market these buildings are clearly targeting?

The real point is obviously the price per square foot that was mentioned, and if someone really wants more space without going the townhouse route they can always combine apartments if they really want to.

3.

#1, I agree with you that a boulevard is better than a brick wall, but park, water, or skyline would trump them both. Of course, it's all a question of price. Would you pay $648/sq foot for that view?

It still feels expensive to me, though not insanely so. (That building on 124th street for which they're asking over $900/sq foot? That's insane).

4.

Historically, real estate prices overreach the services etc in gentrifying neighborhoods.

5.

Great view in pic, southern exposure, lots of light, and a clear view of Bill Clinton’s top floor office.

6.

At these ppsf levels in Harlem, you are supposed to have a park across the street (Morningside, Mt Morris, or Central).

It's a terrible location relative to all the available options more ideally located to serve the person that works at Columbia for example.

I'm even a bit concerned about Morningside Park. Anyone here affiliated with Columbia? Check with the Columbis police and you'll learn of the recent announcements and mass emails to students about a new wave/round of assaults on students, etc. simply crossing Morningside Park. It's getting worse, not better, just check with the Columbia Police.

129th is also a lesser street lined with tenanment bldgs bewtween Lenox & 5th. Before I bought at $650 ppsf in Harlem I would seriously look at Jersey City Water front condo inventory, places close to PATH. to get me to mid & downtown sufficiently.

Plus density is against the nabe, far too much welfare density that's firm in place.

I still say the verdict is very much out to see if Harlem can support open market housing. The subsidized places (Rosa Parks, Tubman, etc.) with all sorts of set-a-side programs don't mean much....who would not buy into those deals. The real indicator is who is willing in invest in Harlem at $650ppsf? No open market. Well it did not go to well for Lenox Grand for the first 35 weeks hence they've resorted to this latest inventive of 5% down & they'll cover closing costs.

However at the end of the day, it's still a bad deal. This is little more than a gimmick, an act of desparation a developer employs when the market itself can't sell the property. What's next? the prices get lowered....

7.

See the new Juice bar just south of Lenox grand.

See the new Soup Man just north of Lenox grand

Services are starting to appear in response to new condo residents and already established gentrifiers in immediate vicinity.

The Lenox corridor is starting to push north above 125th street.

Regardless of the price per sq ft things are improving and have been improving for a number of years on Lenox above 125th.

8.

#6 -- the crime rate in Morningside Park is irrelevant to this location. I'm pretty sure the Lenox Grand is in the 32nd police precinct, where year to date crime rates are up about 5% from a year ago. Crime reports in Harlem as a whole continue to drop. The city makes these statistics available weekly, so you don't need to rely on anecdotal information like "Check with the Columbis police." See http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/pdf/chfdept/cs032pct.pdf for details.

9.

Poster #6 will find anything to however irrelevant to promote negative propaganda.

Remember Tokyo Rose, I think poster #6 is Harlem Rose…

10.

7, isn't it a bit embarrassing to point to a whole in the wall juice bar as a sign of anything significant?

I was in that place today. Saw the scribbling on the chalkboards, it's a tiny take out place w/a 6' counter for crissakes. This is an indicator to you of something?

Are you aware the Lenox Grand has been on the market for 35 weeks w/25% sold after all that time? Take a look at the "Parkview Condos" another Corcoran property, "luxury condo" and all that stuff at $550 ppsf.

http://www.123condo.net/131.htm

12 units, 3 are sold, 4 are contract pending, and 5 are unsold. This is the result after nearly 1 year on the market (47 weeks to be excat). $550 is damn dirt cheap in Manhattan for luxury condos.

This is the real picture of the Harlem market sans smoke, mirrors and spin.
1) Manhattan has thousands of people looking to buy condos
2) There is a tiny number of luxury condos in Harlem. The Lenox Grand has 19, Parkview is 12.
3) In this city with thousans of peole looking to buy and expecting to pay $800-$1,200 ppsf, Corcoran cannot sell 12 unites at $550 in Harlem. Corcoran can't sell 19 units at $650.

This is simply the way things are. If you choose to see this as negative, that's your choice. But it's an accurate reflection of the Harlem Market.

Luxury Condos can't sell at market rate in Harlem. If they could, you would not see this inventory unsold to this measures after 35 & 47 weeks.

Sorry, you can't spin that. A juice bar does not out weigh these facts, and in sum, there are not even a tiny handful of warm bodies with some means to buy who are buying into the "Harlem's Hot Hype".

The market votes with its dollars. In all of Manhattan, Corcoran can't find people who will buy into the Harlem is hot hype....

11.

#10, sure, you can spin anything.
you're doing that yourself.

why didn't you mention 2002 Fifth, which is nearly all-sold?

12.

You guys are so short view, I have been in the hood since 98. I have seen all of the changes since then,and with all of the ethnic cleansing going on, I can only imagine what the next 8 years will look like. Just imagine a lilly white Harlem, do I hear 1000 PSSF. I am so tired of hearing, oh I should have purchased when these brownstones were 150K in the late 90s. How many people are living in shoe boxes downtown, because they are scared of colored people. I mean lets be real, most folks on this island do not even know where Harlem is and do not even care to find out. Not yet I guess.

I have friends that live here and tell me they have family 5 minutes away on the UWS that still have not been up to visit because they think they are out of their minds. They are still trying to figure this out while my one little spec of manhattan has made me a rich, free man.

Wake up people this is Manhattan Island. This is the island of the elite. And it is not getting any larger. I remember 400 PSF in battery park city, do the research.

Good Luck

13.

I agree with #10. In a market where asking prices for most NYC apts. average 800-$1,000 per sq. ft. Its a strong point to argue that these Harlem apts should have sold out by now. I believe many people are waiting in the wings to buy. With the trend of prices now declining there is no urgency to buy in Harlem now. Not when better more established neighboorhoods apt prices are coming down.
Also and more importantly, Areas like Harlem will have the most drastic price correction downwards when this whole market correction works itself out.

14.

#10,

Luxury Condos ARE selling at market rate in Harlem.

The market rate is the rate that the Harlem market will bear.

This is way cheaper than below 96th street.

This is called gentrification

Have you noticed, Harlem is gentrifying.

Little by little things are improving, have been for years.

Early adopters get the best prices.

15.

Anyone else check out the open house at 725 Riverside Dr this weekend?
I went to see the 1800sq ft 10th floor apt.
The renovation was pathetic. The bldg, is worse.
Its a tenament where most tenants are low income, and very hostile to condo buying gentrifiers.
Lots of open drug sales on the block as well.

16.

#15 - check out corcoran's site. It looks like 706 RSD and 725 RSD are using the same photos. Aren't both of these buildings Pinnacle condo conversions? The renovations in the pics look horrible for the price.

17.

Harlem will change slowly and eventually, I started browsing properties there but for amenties and convenience alone, I'd rather buy in downtown brooklyn. I'm looking at carroll gardens, boerum hill, and dumbo right now and the difference in progress between those neighborhoods and harlem is huge. Unfortunately as harlem gentrifies, it is losing it's character. Where's the charm? Downtown brooklyn has charm.

18.

My husband and I went to see the apts at 725 Riverside. The renovations done on the apts are deplorable. It was if they knew they weren't going to be able to sell these apts no matter what they did, so they spent as little money as possible in the hopes that some suckers would bite.
In the end they made improvements to rent out to a bunch of columbia students.

19.

I am a Columbia alum.

There are no Columbia police (much less "Columbis" police).

And the only people who get jumped in Morningside Park are the white kids who aren't smart enough to get their weed delivered, so they resort to wandering the park and asking random young black men "Where can I get some pot?".

Of course they get jumped after that...

20.

#19,

Thank you for calling the negative BS of #6.

Readers, beware of the formulated negative propaganda regarding Harlem that regularly appears, always following the same pattern, focus only on the negative and exaggerate.

I guess by those wishing to scare away newcomers.

21.

I'm a harlem resident and i love the place (whitey-haters aside), but the boosters should get real about public safety concerns. Columbia public safety (and there indeed is one) department reports 3 muggings over the summer in Morningside park, all in broad daylight. Alerts available here: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/publicsafety/alerts.htm

22.

that bldg in the view -- the school with a steeple on top --is the new Mormon church bldg, btw. the congregation's about 50/50 black/non, if that's any gentrification indicator. plus, they're all people who didn't move there for the Starbucks.

23.

Price per square foot is only part of the picture. The reason the Lenox Grand and the parkview are not selling is because they are not very good developments. The people that would buy at market rate in Harlem would do so for a property that is more than just a white box with mediocre finish, even if it is larger.

24.

Everyone is emailing about no. 10. First, I think the website for the Park View hasn't been updated. They've sold all but 3 or 4 units and the 3 of them are still under construction. But I think it has to do with the poor workmanship of the building and the Lenox Grand, which I hear is done by the same developers and contractors. I have a friend who lives in the Park View and he says they have a ton of problems there, bad or loud ventilation units, bad floors, thin walls where you can hear everything, leaks, ugly backyard, etc. Also they are not fixing things the way they are suppose to so these builders guys seem shady to me and will probably end up being sued by the residents or something. I heard a lot of complaints about them. They are Rose Tree and Corcon or Corcon and Rose Tree. The builders did a bad job, they are shady, and that is probably why they have not sold old. It looks nice on the inside but it could be all smoke and mirrors so I'm sure the Lenox Grand is the same way. Bad word of mouth is not good for these developers. So I don't know if it's Harlem's fault vs. the fact that these developers are just throwing up junk and not fixing it. How's the Lenox doing I wonder. Now that one seems a bit more quality and the builders I hear are reputable.

25.

BEST SAID BY THIS POSTER:

All I have to say is that there are good areas of Harlem and there are bad areas. The same can be said about every single area in Manhattan - from Inwood to Battery Park. Lets review some other notable areas of horror:
East Village - College students and hipsters yelling at 4 am after bar hopping. We can't forget them vomiting and camping out on residential building stoops. East village has been and will always be trashy.
Upper East Side - The walk from York Ave to the subway station alone makes this area a horror story. In wintertime, forget about surviving without 5-8 layers.
Soho/chinatown/Tribeca (at night) - Need I say anymore? You can literally walk around in these areas and get mugged 5x more than you will in Harlem. I always have felt safer in midtown west/upper west side/Harlem at night.
Midtown West - Just plain horrible. I can't stand tourist and elite theatre goers running around an area in awe. GET OUT OF THE WAY. One of the most commerical and crowded areas in Manhattan. If you want quiet move uptown. If you want hundreds of people and loud cars - move to Times Square. Times Square is sooo much better than lower Harlem.
Williamsburg ( I know its not Manhattan, but many people would rather move here than Harlem it seems) - L train service will be out for about 7 weeks. And this better than Harlem's entire network of A/C/B/D/1/2/3 trains? LOL LOL LOL. For all those idiots who paid for condos there - I laugh at you. I laugh at you now. For all those elite Brooklyn people who live in Williamsburg, I find it quite funny how you can't even get into Manhattan for 7 weeks! LOL LOL LOL At least in Harlem i can get downtown anytime from anywhere.
I have lived in various parts of New York all my life. Lived on campus when I went to NYU. I love New York. But I won't let snobbish New Yorkers make fun of an area. All areas of New York Suck. If you live in a 300 square foot condo in the village. I laugh at you, because I know someone in Inwood with a 2000 square foot apartment with doorman and laundry in his apartment.
AND TO THOSE WHO MAKE FUN OF POOR RESIDENTS IN HARLEM: EVERY SINGLE AREA OF MANHATTAN HAS SOMEONE PAYING REALLY REALLY LOW RENT. There is someone in Tribeca right now paying 400 dollars in rent for the same apartment you are paying 3500 for. So shut the F##% up about poor people being kicked out and just accept the horror of owning/renting in Manhattan.