West Soho Paradise Threatened by Sanitation
Tuesday, January 9, 2007, by BL
Judging by the emails rolling into the ol' Curbed inbox in the past 12 hours, we've got a hot controversy brewing that involves many of our favorite things: the Department of Sanitation, the lovely neighborhood known as West Soho, and of course, Donald Trump. To the emails:
1) "Curbed, It's been called to my attention that the area known to some as Hudson Square has some potential new neighbors. Not the Urban Glass House folks, but Garbage Trucks. There's a new proposal to take the UPS lot on Spring btwn West and Washington and turn the almost two acres into a 140-150 ft garage for the sanitation department. Also, the plans call from 1,000's of gallons of storage for fuel in this spot, as well as the spot right next to the Holland Tunnel."
2) "I suggest you look at this bombshell which has been dropped on the Hudson Square/West Soho/ North Tribeca residents. This is going to result in community resistance like you have NEVER seen before."
3) "Karma is a bitch. The department of sanitation is proposing a new 15 story building where one of the UPS lots is at Spring and Washington. There are also proposals to build buildings to house salt and diesel fuel. That's going to be real pretty to look at from Trump's new building."
The aerial image of the plan, above, comes from a massive draft scope document the city released last week about the proposal. (We might have added The Donald ourselves.)
First, the proposal goes by the melliflous name, "CONSOLIDATED SANITATION GARAGE FOR MANHATTAN DISTRICTS 1, 2 & 5." Nothing scary there, right? Now, the details:
1.1 Project Description
DSNY is proposing to construct and operate a new garage facility in lower Manhattan on a site generally bounded by Spring Street, Washington Street and West Street. The new garage would consolidate operations at the proposed site to provide better service to the local community districts, achieve an economy of scale, replace outdated facilities, and improve operational efficiencies. It would also enable DSNY to comply with its legal obligation to vacate the Gansevoort peninsula, 2 Bloomfield Street/427 Gansevoort Street, within the recently established Hudson River Park, which currently holds garages for Manhattan Districts 2 and 4, and which will in the future temporarily house up to two other Manhattan garage districts pending completion of new facilities but will at no time hold more than three Manhattan garage districts...
The new multi-story garage (approximately 427,000 gross square feet of space) would be located on an 85,450 square foot- (sq ft-) site that is currently owned and used by the United Parcel Service (UPS) for truck trailer staging and parking (known as the Equipment Staging Lot) as part of their Manhattan South Facility operations... The overall UPS Package Distribution Facility operations would remain as they currently are. There would be no change in their existing operations. The number of UPS trucks, trailers, other vehicles and employees would remain at their present levels...
There would be a maximum of 128 pieces of DSNY equipment operating out of the new
garage. The total number of employees on a peak day over three shifts would be about 231 (including 191 sanitation workers). The peak number of employees working out of the new garage during any individual shift would be 108. The facility would operate 24 hours per day, 7 days per week.
DSNY truck and equipment access and egress to the DSNY garage would be via West Street and Washington Street. The configuration of West Street in this location allows for queuing of trucks and equipment, when needed. Vehicles exiting the garage at this point would turn north onto West Street. DSNY would also be able to enter and exit the new garage via Washington Street (one-way in a southerly direction) at the northern end of the site. DSNY employees would enter and access the garage from Washington Street at mid-block...
The DSNY salt storage facility (Block 600, Lot 29) would be located just north of the new garage for ready access to the vehicles and equipment. The covered facility would have a maximum storage capacity of 6,500 tons of salt. Loading operations would take place from the Washington Street side of the facility. There would be two aboveground storage tanks for liquid calcium chloride used to melt snow and ice...
3.4 Shadows
The 140- to 150-foot DSNY garage would create incremental shadows on the street and adjoining areas. An adverse shadow impact is considered to occur when the shadow from a proposed project falls on a publicly accessible open space, historic landscape or historic resource. Because the project site is located proximate to both a NYC Landmark building, the James Brown House located at 326 Spring Street, as well as the Hudson River Park and waterfront, a screening analysis will be performed to ascertain whether project-related shadows might reach either of these resources...
3.6 Urban Design/Visual Resources
The new garage would be constructed within the general building forms that have recently been constructed and are being built in this section of Manhattan. The uniform and high street wall would be compatible with the surrounding area built forms. The 140- to 150-foot high structure would not block views from publicly accessible locations. The garage would house the UPS trucks and semi-trailers that are regularly parked in the existing open, fenced parking lot...
There's lots more detail, but those are the parts that jump out to us on an initial read. Community opposition? Oh, expect it: written arguments on the draft scope proposal are due by February 12.
One more pretty map of the scene:
So... uh, your thoughts?
· Draft Scoping Document: Sanitation Garage [nyc.gov, PDF]
if I'm not mistaken, there was an open architectural competition for this facility held over the past summer, but I don't recall ever seeing any updates for finalists/winners etc
I gave you the heads up on this last week and I'm glad you finally brought it up to the forefront.
We finally get rid of most of the nightclub shootem' up scene and now the city dumps this crap down our throats?
I would rather have a Trump building on every block in Hudson Square then this travesty.
Who is the idiot that came up with this scheme? Isn't it enough that the neighorhood suffers from a UPS operation that gives absolutely nothing back to the community? Only a handfull of UPS employees patronize any of the restaurants or bars or deli's in the neighborhood. The majority prefer those stainless steel coffee trucks.
The community was bitching and moaning about how much traffic was going to be generated by "big box" stores located on Pier 40. What about all the traffic that is going to be generated by this mess? Did someone forget to notify the idiots in charge that the Holland Tunnel entrance is but a few scant blocks away?
Is there a "Clean Air Act" or something that can be done about this?
neighborhood? last time i checked this was an industrial area. It's the condos that are new, not the trucks. I would love to hear from a broker how this is really good news for the Urban Glass House and the 304 Spring Condo. Who needs water views anyway?
The Trump condos should be a real easy sell now. They'll be located at the mouth of the Holland Tunnel and 2 blocks from a 24 hour SDNY garage. Karma is a bitch.
Grow up, ya NIMBYs.
It's YOUR trash that's gonna go in those trucks.
Douchebags.
Anon,
Your stupidity is overwhelming. Read the details before you stuff your foot in your mouth.
Although it's immaterial, it's not our trash. Our building actually uses private sanitation not NYDS. And what they are trying to do is combine three districts into one super storage garage.
The neighborhood has suffered with the UPS attitude that they don't give a fuck since they opened back in the late seventies. They park on curbs, drive the wrong way down the street, and rather than communicating with the staff inside the building at four in the morning to open the door, they lay on their horns until the door is opened. I've lived with that shit for over twenty years. In fact I was here before UPS was. I got accustomed to their crap, but this project is over the top.
So take your own garbage and shove it!
You've been there over 20 years and so you could have moved.
FYI, SoHo stands for South of Houston. Clarkson and Hudson are not West SoHo but the West Villiage.
"the lovely neighborhood known as West Soho" The curbed folks are quick to jump to conclusions but can't properly identify neihborhoods.
Did anyone (this means you Luigi) bother to use the key that came with the map? It's zoned for industrial use. Better call the mover.
And by the way, which restaurants which would you like UPS drivers to patronize? Giorgione on Spring? Last time I was there the entrees were priced at close to $30.
I am sure the same arguments are going to be given as to why this should not be here are as were given by those fighting the garbage terminal on the UES. You can't stick all the garbage facilities in the outer boroughs. Everyone needs to have their share.
Would this not be a minor improvement for Hudson Square (as opposed to west SOHO) residents given that the facility (while larger) would be further away?
Apropos of neighborhood validity--e.g., Hudson Square's industrial/residential/mixed-use zoning-- does "West Soho" mean anything? I live on the east side of Sixth ave b/t Prince and Spring. I rarely wander west, as there isn't that much over there, but I wonder if anyone else has thought about/lives in the "West Soho" minineighborhood to the east bounded perhaps by Varick, West Bway, Houston, and Broome?
I once made the mistake of renting an apartment on the UES near the garbage depot on 73rd street and York. What an absolutely disgusting place this was, like a vertical urban trailer park. Of course they don't tell you certain things when you view an apartment in the middle of the day, like the fact that almost every morning from 3am till 11am, the trucks would pull out of the garage, park on the street outside my building and idle their engines, producing the worlds worst exhaust (well, maybe this side of Jersey) that would seep into the building and all the apartments. We'd come home from working all day to find our apartment was like a Cloud City of blue film all the time.
If this goes through, you have no idea what you're in for...
DOS must have some of the stupidest planners on earth. Who came up with the GREAT idea of siting 30,000 gallons of diesel, gasoline and ethanol right next to the Holland Tunnel vent shaft and right on top of the Holland Tunnel tubes????
The area is zoned M1 which is light manufacturing. Light manufacturing basically left the area about ten years ago when the printers moved out. Now the area is primarily office and storage space.
Since they need to transfer the garbage someplace, that is where the storage facility should be. And since the idea of using rail transfer has come up, the obvious place for it to be is at the rail yards up in the thirties.
what are the odds this actually happens?
I live in SoHo and work a block from the proposed facility. I use this area seven days a week. I think this is a great idea and a great location. If you don't like it, go away and take your trash with you when you leave.
Manhattan real estate eats shit and shits roses. If this gets done, people will line up for that one-of-a-kind, $2000/foot smell you can only get in Woho.
Trump got permission to build his 45 story condo hotel right outside of Soho and there's no reason this garbage facility won't go through. Local protests will do nothing just like they did nothing to stop Trump.
None of those rich folks who bought at 505 Greenwich or any of the other new buildings in the immediate area have any recourse whatsoever.
Condo prices in Hudson Square/West Soho will drop 30% or more after the garbage truck facility is built. I live nearby, so I'm obviously against it too, but there's nothing I or any other local citizen can do about it.
The garbage has to go somewhere before it, naturally, ends up in Jersey or someplace equally Jersey-like. If the garbage is to be transported by rail then West side Yards area probably makes the most sense. If the garbage is to be taken by truck, this West-SOHO area that is already industrial-zoned seems ideal regardless of the re-zoning expectations of the johnny-come-lately glass building speculators. Personally, I'd like it situated right next to those cretans at the DOT tow-pound lot who towed my car when I parked next to a hydrant that was covered in trash bags.
Could it be that large concentrations of people, especially better-off ones that have nice lofts to fill with consumer goods, might a) receive a great many packages and b) generate a great deal of waste? And that perhaps, given that these behaviors have negative impacts, that those impacts should be borne by those who generate them? And that by handling impacts locally, we give ourselves ample reason to minimize them, and reduce other impacts in other domains (e.g., truck traffic on bridges and tunnels) that we also care about?
Naaah.
(cue comments from local residents on how they compost their takeout containers, that they personally know families that make less than $75,000 per year, that pointing out relationships between income and consumption is class warfare, that the negative consequences of their actions belong in New Jersey, etc.)
Remember that young investment banker who famously claimed "I'm not buying a place at the Glass House. When I moving in, it'll be called the Ass House!"
Well, it looks like he was right. It's gonna smell like ASS alright!
Bring in the trucks!! Everyone must deal with their own trash, there is no reason why rich people should not as well. AND...as people have noted the area is zoned as industrial; your high priced lawyers should have pointed that out before you dropped a wad for your condo.
Just so we are clear folks, the proposal is NOT for a garbage depot it's for a parking lot for garbage trucks. Not really an environmental issue. It will just be a ugly building to look at that will block views.
There's really not a big enough local community of residents there to stop this. It's not like the West Village where people take to the streets with pitch forks. This is a sparsely populated area. Half the condos sold there are for out-of-towners.
If you would stop and look at the area you will find that most of the buildings are commercial buildings, hence they use private carting services. So the NYDS trucks are not transporting their garbage, they are carting other people's garbage.
Yes it is not a garbage transfer station, it's a garage for trucks which just add more congestion to an already congested area.
It's not a problem to be solved archtecturally. It's a city planning problem.
Note the mention of salt storage tanks: DSS also handles snow removal, so in addition to the fact that this is not a garbage depot, it's not even going to be just garbage trucks there. If a snowstorm suddenly hits (which to be fair seems less and less likely these days) I'd think everyone would want the snowplows and salt spreaders a lot closer than NJ or the Bronx.
If it was up to the sanitation workers the plows would be stored in California so they can get the extra overtime coming and going.
Otherwise why wouldn't they park, wash and store the trucks close to where they are unloading?
Dash3456,
You are an idiot! Yes the map shows that the building north of the proposed site is industrial but in reality it is commercial. It use to house Merrill Lynch back office facilities and now houses I believe Bloomberg facilities. Neither are manufacturing heavy munitions or railroad parts.
The other industrial site shown is UPS. That's a distribution center and they are not manufacturing architectural steel reinforcement gussets or prison cell front pieces.
It's a commercial area not an industrial area.
ARX,
Your concept of a great idea sucks! Who do you work for the DSNY? Or do you take out the garbage for Don Hill's?
Wow there is some bad vibe out there... class warfare... please stop that we are in this together...
Seriously folks, I think we (that includes all who live in and/or use the neighborhood--and that means those of you that also like to access the West Side park via Spring or Canal) need to consider the fact that is may actually GET DONE in some form or another--but remember that they go to the extreme in their proposal (the largest possible facility)--realizing that it will likely get whittled down via concessions to the neighborhood as this is NOT a "fair share" but rather MORE than our "fair share" via the consolidation of MULTIPLE facilities into OUR collective neighborhood.
I think a real positive would be to halve the FOOTPRINT of the facility by moving it to the north end of the plot, downsizing it a bit or moving part of the garage underground and maybe making it slightly higher if they ACTUALLY need that much square footage. This means that the facility would abut NO residences--and free up the south side of the lot for public space and perpetual air rights. Let's get serious about this, neighbors!
J
THE DISTRICT 1,2,AND 5 GARAGE IS AN IDIOTIC AND ASININE PROPOSAL. THIS LAND SHOULD BE USED FOR RESIDENTIAL HOMES OR A PARK. STORING FUEL AND CHEMICAL TANKS OVER THE HOLLAND TUNNEL AND ADDING MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF TRAFFIC WILL DESTROY THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND DESTROY MILLIONS IN PROPERTY VALUES. THE RESIDENTS ARE GOING TO FIGHT THIS TILL THE BLOODY END.
These DOS facility proposals have come about in large part due to the requirement for DOS to clear out of the Gansevoort Peninsula and the pier near 59th street where salt storage currently takes place (those areas will be renovated as part of the Hudson River Park).
Where else within Community Boards 1, 2 & 3 can such a facility be built that allows for quick and easy access for the DOS vehicles? I'm not hearing anyone with a viable proposal.
The residentail buildings that have gone up south of Spring Street are only possbile because that area was recently rezoned to allow for residential buildings -- perhaps those folks who bought into those buildings should have done a bit more research into the area and what might be allowed in the surrounding lots.
Finally, there is no reason that this building needs to be ugly -- it should be desinged as a top class green building with a green roof. Sure it will block some views -- but, hey, it's NYC and that has been going on since the Dutch gave it up.
It's our trash -- somethings got to be done with it. if you want to fight then fight to make it the best facility that we Downtowners can get.
Area Person,
Fine I agree with your tactic, but it is a political and architectural solution that you are looking at, not a planning solution. There is already too much traffic in the area and to create more is assinine on the city's planning part.
We who live between Canal and Clarkson have been shitted on (I like that term better than shat) since the beginning of this wondrous Hudson River Park began. That section of the park was scheduled to be the last section to be developed in the original scheme. It was suppose to be completed in the fall of 2001. Well I believe most people realize what happened in the fall of 2001, although there might be a few readers here based on their intelligence don't.
Now the promenade of that section of the park is a storage area for all the construction material for the rest of the park. God only knows how long that crap is going to be around.
How many people here know about the original UPS expansion project that was OK'd by dick head Dinkens and Andrew Stein on their last days of office?
Ummm... Luigi... I put "areasonableperson" not "area person" but that works too... I think there is a REAL case for making lemonade out of lemons here. If the entrances to the property are on Spring (on the half of the block to the north) and all exits are on west (with possible entrances there too)... there will be NO Tunnel traffic interference and it leaves the populated neighborhood FREE of trucks, and it doesn't send them into the already road-raged Holland Tunnel traffic area...
oops i meant all entrances on WASHINGTON--my error, NOT Spring
areason,
If they use the Washington street entrance, that will only screw up UPS's operation because they feed their trucks from Washington street both to the "yard" and into the bays on the west side of their terminal, plus their washing bay which goes through from Washington street (no relation to the santation washing bay) to Greewich street for all their delivery trucks.
If both UPS and sanitation are queing up on Washington street they will back up to Houston street and before you know it nothing moves on or below Houston Street. Having watched both sanitation and UPS shuttle drivers over the years I can assure you we are not talking neither brain surgeons nor respectful individuals.
Neither can use West street because that will back up everything going into the Holland Tunnel. How might I ask are the sanitation trucks going to get to the terminal? Come down West street and make a turn on Clarkson Street? Come up West street and make a turn on Spring and wrap around the UPS terminal? Come across Houston street and make a left on Washington? HUH?
PUBLIC HEARING TO BLOCK THE NYDS GARAGE CONSOLIDATION: Weds, Jan 31st, Kimmel Hall, New York University, 60 Washington Square South, Rosenthal Pavilion, Tenth Floor, New York, NY, 7:30-9:30 PM
pantagleize,
Go get yourself a double frappe Latte at Starbucks and stay out of our neighborhood. I'll give you a green roof over your stupid head, how about a "soylent green" roof? Do you like the shade of green? What do you do for a living knit macrame flower pot hangers?
I'll give you an alternative area. How about the train yards up town at 34th street? Perfect for a transfer station also. There is no practical use for the space anyway. And screw the high line extension to 34th street. No one is going to go up there except to walk their dogs so they can take a shit in the weeds when no one is looking.
Our small tight knit community will make this the fight of the century. I can guarantee this.
One additional thought regarding increased traffic and congestion in the area. How about all the sanitation workers at the facility that will drive in to work? Presently one cannot walk down Spring street on the north side between Washington and West because the few workers that service the existing garage park their cars on the sidewalk. I can't imagine what will happen when the garbage crew expands megatimes.
God forbid they should take public transport. Public servants that they are.
All agreed Luigi--I prefer to block the ENTIRE project, I was just trying to suggest some better alternatives if we get stuck with it. I'll see you at the Public hearing on 1/31 to let our elected officials know what my wife and I and my two kids think!
The rail yards that you propose for an alternative site are in CB4 -- this facility is to serve (for the most part) CBs 1, 2 & 3.
Do you know of any other viable sites within those three CBs?
But, OK -- for the sake of argument -- say this particular proposal gets stopped. The site at Washington / Spring / West (currently a parking lot) is zoned for something near the size of what is proposed.
Are you saying that you'll work to block any development on that site?
If not, then what type of development under the current zoning would be acceptable to go up there?
btw: I've lived in CB2 for nearly 30 years ...
Don't drink those latte things you mentioned -- but does that happen to be your personal favorite?
I live in Soho and I am completely in favor of this type of development because it will keep out the kind of development that is clearly reducing the quality of life downtown: residential development. The Trump building and similar residential buildings bring congestion and other similar problems. Look at the Meatpacking District. It was a great place until they started putting in hotels etc. I think this project will clearly reduce the desirability of the neighborhood so I'm all for it.
Let me chime in with Anonymous 44 and repeat my stance in favor of this project. I believe that cretinous Luig is the best representative of the NIMBY protestor whom we seek to address, along with areasonableperson. In response to Luig, I do not work for the DSNY or Don Hill's; rather, I am an architect/urban planner, resident of SoHo for over 30 years, parent, local property owner, daily user of the riverpark, etc.
My experience of urban vitality is inclusive and plural. Garbage exists, and we cannot wish it away or just deflect it to somebody else's neighborhood. So do lots of other infrastructural items necessary for the maintenance of urban life. Northern European cities, with greater historical perspective, understand this and deal with infrastructure by simply handling it well: hiring great designers and even celebrating the stuff that maintains life.
By contrast, my experience of a stultifying urban environment is one populated by people hellbent on preserving their own static vision of the place; in NYC in particular the bulk of these types are those who "got lucky" or "got a break" of some sort and then proceed to defend their little fiefdoms to the bitter end. So you had a big loft cheap for some years; well, things change. The residential developers cited by 44 are jumping on this bandwagon and, yes, contributing to a decline in the overall (if not immediate) local quality of life.
I'd rather be part of a vital, open, inclusive process that handles everything, garbage included, with intelligence and understanding. Under Bloomberg I'm willing to see even the DSNY as capable of such behavior, and think that the participation of an educated and engaged local populace would be the best thing for the city and society's long-term benefit.
#44,
You are so far gone I will not comment on your comment. Enjoy your weekends in SoHo and don't cross Sixth Avenue. The meatpacking district was a group of smelly rundown buildings prior to its gentrification.
#42
An alternative site is where it is already and build another pier nearby to accommodate a park.
Commercial office space is a viable use for the site.
#46, I would gladly have those old "smelly" rundown buildings to the NJ and Long Island bimbos that are there now.
ARX
Are you a masochist?
We already have a DOS facility on Gansevoort.
This proposal will, utilizing eminent domain, introduce three additional garbage facilites, serving other Sanitation Districts besides CB2 (eg Chelsea, UES)
DOS also wants to store flammable and explosive materials directly next to the Holland Tunnel's air intake vents. Do you not remember 7 WTC?
Canal St is a traffic nightmare. We have 3 bridges and 2 tunnels bringing countless vehicles into Downtown.
You want more vehicles? Are you mad?
I'll accept one DOS facility in CB2. Not 4.
Downtown Boy,
I don't know where ARX practices his architecture and urban planning but his concept of community improvement sure differs from ours. How can new condos that replaced for the most part garages (several of which use to house private sanitation storage and service areas) be bad for the neighborhood? The only significant structure that was lost unfortunately was a remodeled Federal House on Spring Street.
Yes I live in a loft and yes I was one of the original pioneers in the area, but no it wasn't cheap then and it isn't cheap now. We never had a J51 tax abatement as so many of the lofts in SoHo did, so ARX go back to designing your paper architecture and leave the real world to people that inhabit it.
Why are people assuming that the diesel fuel tanks will be "directly next to" the intake vents? If the tank is across the street and in the ground (like a gas station) it doesn't seem to be a real issue.
Across the street is above the west bound tube of the Holland Tunnel.
If the dumb fucks back in the 90's realized that air high jackings for the most part was accessing the cockpit there would never had been a 9/11.
May I ask you how many skyjackings have there been since they secured the cockpits? Dumb shit planners. I don't care if they live in SoHo or in Schenectady, most planners are dumb fucks.
Luigi @ 46: Can't leave them "where they are" (There's a court order to remove existing DSNY facilities from piers).
"build another pier nearby" doesn't solve the problem of DSNY's requirement to vacate the piers (see above).
50: The triangular plot just west of the Holland Tunnel Ventilation Towers ("Existing MN1 Garage" on the map) is proposed as the site for vehicle "re-fueling" ...
However, a gas station currently sits on the opposite side of Canal with underground storage tanks -- in proximity to the Holland Tunnel tubes below. It's been there for years.
Are y'all proposing that the fuel storage on that site is a danger and should be removed?
Pantamentalparalized,
Do you realize they are consolidating three "community" districts, 1 2 and 5? Do you know you stupid piece of shit that community 5's present location is on east 73rd street? They are going to truck all their vehicles down and across town to this facility. You as well as ARX, are two dumb pieces of crap to think this is a good solution.
As I said before they should explore the area around the MN6 garage if they want to consolidate services. Also why is the Gansevort Park so important? The Hudson River Park is suffering already for lack of dollars. Do they really need to spend more to make a park and maintain same? Look at the shit job they are doing at maintaining Pier 40.
Lug-head --- I guess the pressure of being on the lsoing side of the fight is getting to you, eh? Yeah, who the fuck needs a park? Or a way to deal with sanitation vehicles? We all get it now -- it's all about you and your corner of the world.
btw: How was your latte today? A bit sour???
According to the Environmental Assessment Statement, DOSNY proposes to store 29,000 gallons of petroleum products on DOSY's new refueling facility. This site is directly over the PA's Holland Tunnel and is adjacent to the tunnel's ventilation shaft.
The proposed garage on the UPS site, also adjacent to the tunnel will have another 12,000 gallons of petroleum products stored on site.
An explosion on these sites would be catastrophic to the Holland tunnel, businesses, residents, pedestrian traffic, the streets, 9A, and pier 40. All of the mentioned are within 800 feet of the proposed facilities
The loss of 251 parking spaces in the garage on Clarkson& Washington Street would affect businesses and residents.
I can only wonder what the PA and Homeland Security would say to the siting of these DOSNY facilities.
We lost the battle with the city over the storage of fuel at 60 Hudson Street. Homeland Security feels that 60 Hudson Street is vulnerable.
The city obviously does not care for the safety of its citizens.
EPL,
Finally another voice of a intelligent being.
Paraphernaliarize, or whatever its name is, reasons that because there is a gas station across from the site that it's OK to have one on the proposed site. I guess he believes it balances and neutralizes the situation. It does, only one truck loaded with explosives is needed to take out both tunnels instead of just one.
Before some idiot trys to correct my grammar, the typo should read "an intelligent being," not "a intelligent being."
Luig
The 58 Posting is not my posting.
Someone else is using my name.
EPL
When is NYC going to stop trashing valued residential and recreation space adjacent to it's rivers. It is about time it builds an underground trash facility to containerize and put NYC trash into boxes and take it out of NY on rail via a rail tunnel. With global warming and energy costs driving garbage trucks out of our tunnels to NJ is just stupid. It is hard to believe such a sophisticated city continues to even pay money for consultants to develope such proposals. Wake up New York.
I want to correct the following in my # 56 posting. Paragraph 0ne, line three that begins with "This site"
It should read: This site is adjacent to the Holland Tunnel on Spring Street and adjacent to the Ventiliation Shaft on Washington Street
Anybody attend the sanitation hearing? What went on? Was opposition strong?
There was a good turnout at the meeting -- room was full of folks from the community.
Lots of good info was presented -- particularly from David Reck -- and others, as well.
A rundown of the 1/31 meeting with pics of the presentation boards and more info at wirednewyork; search "Department of Sanitation" and the thread will come up.
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