The Edge Is Very, Very Alive in Williamsburg

1.

here we go again.
wait, do you mean just to the north?

2.

w/ all due respect to wmburg; i just returned from looking at an apt near the marcy sub stop on the m/j line; looking very brokeback i still drew stares; grafitti and burgler bars everywhere; felt like i was in a 3rd world; really, i did not feel safe; and this was at noon; apt was 885K, for that i'll continue to squeeze into my manhattan 750 sq feet. is wmburg that 'block to block'?

3.

matt, that doesn't sound like williamsburg, sounds like bedsty. williamsburg is safe. that shitty area is just a shitty area.

4.

thanks! i figured the broker was stretching the location; ever onward williamsburg!

5.

Williamsburg does cover a very large area. The Marcy stop is definitely in Williamsburg - but yes it is a different area then the Bedford L stop. BUT this area is still safe and many people prefer this train to the L for a number of reasons. I've lived on Broadway by Bedford for 3 years and take this train all the time.

6.

the JMZ is far preferable to the L to get to manhattan in the morning.

i'd consider the area very safe.

7.

matt - maybe what you were seeing were the bars on buildings inhabited by hassids - they're not the same as "burglar bars".

8.

you may well have found a nasty area, but just about every neighborhood i've seen in nyc features homes with bars on first floor windows.

9.

JMZ Southside Williamsburg is definitely more gritty than NorthSide L-Bedford-Ave train Williamsburg.

My fiance' is still pretty sketched by Marcy Ave JMZ (even though rationally we know its safe.) The Bedford L though is pretty much impossible to tell apart from the LES in terms of people and size of crowds.

If you're willing to spend 825k, why not look at the more interesting developments off the L [ like the Modern or the Mill Bldg if it still has stuff left. ]

10.

The Mill are the best condos in Williamsburg. Easily.

11.

these renderings make me want to vomit

12.

Where are all the haters that say Williamsburg is dead, oversaturated, bubble bursting, no one wil lmove there...blah blah blah... Guess the 'hood is still desirable.

13.

have noticed quite a few new boutiques and restaurants opening in the burg -- for awhile things seemed to be at saturation point but now there's Ylli, NitaNita, Silent P, Jumelles, the garden Store on N. 10th, and a few more boutiques on Kent. Plus lots of Brit tourists wandering round with maps.

14.

bought a place last summer off the bedford stop. this was before buildings like north8, mill, northside piers, the edge, etc. had their names let alone foundations (except mill). walking around the neighborhood, you notice a lot more condos under construction than occupied (probably 8:1). once these projects finish, williamsburg will change yet again. residents now have A Lot to choose from, but soon we'll have even more. this is just phase one - the construction phase. phase two - a neighborhood that will greatly benefit local businesses and create demand for what will surely be great amenities in the future. watch out locals, there'll be a fleet of newcomers eager to claim a stake. are we in agreement that this will be the golden age of williamsburg? the neighborhood will soon be immune from bad-mouthing/hate. who talks shit about soho or the east village with any legitamacy? those are nice places to live and soon williamsburg will qualify as well. okay, bring on the negativity. start psychoanalyzing me and yourself.

15.

And to think I could have lived in Jersey City with a view such as that, for half the price. Such beauty they are.

16.

Most of these posts are written by the developers of the condos in Williamsburg. The neighborhood now has a bad, really bad reputation. It is the place to be if you are a spoiled kid whose parents will buy you a million dollar condo. It is the place to be if you are so out of touch with reality that you feel you are entitled to the world without giving back anything in return. It certainly is a place to hype if you are a developer and are afraid of a lot of inventory that will be left on your hands in the very near future!

People are now trying to say that they are from Greenpoint, if it is at all possible to finese it. Williamsburg is a bad place for one's identity. It speaks of "the emperor's new clothes" sold to a bunch of insecure sheep. Get a life and live in a real neighborhood-not a land of spoiled twenty and thirty year old brats. They are selling jeans at the Gap called Williamsburg jeans because they're so hot-ass trendy!!! Not.

17.

Why is it that every time someone comes out and says that they like a property, everyone comments that the posts must be from developers. Get used to it, there are people in NY that like these buildings, in fact with a population over 8 million, I bet that there are more than a few, and I'm sure that some of them even come from places other than Ohio.

18.

Ahahahahahahahaha! You anti-Williamsburg Williamburgers just try not to let the door hit you on the ass on the way out!

Williamsburg may soon be bad for your identity... if you're a skinny, artsy-fartsy Hipster-type. The rest of us couldn't care less what you think about what's happening to "your" neighborhood.

Once again, the "Williamsburg development is dead" soothsayers are proven wrong.

19.

Define a real neighborhood" Andrew. I'm curious. I moved to Williamsburg from the EV. Both neighborhoods are 'real' to me and both are filled with spoiled 20-30 somethings and a whole lot of other types of people as well. All these stereotypes are ridiculous.

20.

I couldn't agree with #19 more. Andrew, let's hear it. What hood is so cool it defies stereotypes?

21.

cant we all just get along???

22.

Andrew....I think you hit the nail on the head when you are talking about people who are defined by their neighborhoods. I think I would rather by surrounded by people whose 'identity' comes from their friends, values, community...etc...it's a bit less high-school...

23.

Ugh - the area by the Marcy stop as third world?! Dude you clearly have never been to a real third world if you think that's what it looks like. Please stay on the Upper East Side with that attitute - you won't be missed in Williamsburg. Yes that is clearly Wburg, not even close to Bed-Stuy.

24.

I think the point that Andrew is making is -
most neighborhoods grow in a natural way, not with the wholesale displacement of most of the former neighborhood population. In a situation where all the old settlers are displaced by new arrivals with money, a unbalanced segregated community, similar to a gated community, is created.

Neighborhoods have a core of people who are committed to its problems and strengths over years. It is a pragmatic, adaptive history that is passed on within the citizens of the community. It is created over generations of time and is responsive to present and past needs.

The new Willimsburg, because of a tax insentive and new zoning changes, is being formed all at once. You just has to have a lot of money, or parents who have the money, to buy in. Unfortunately often this is a marginal financial committment with very little equity and a lot of debt for the buyer.

Williamsburg, by the nature of its formatioon is a post graduate college dorm for people who need to extend their post graduate life in a sheltered environment. I do not know what neighborhood Andrew would mention as "real;" there are so many, but I would certainly suggest the upper west side, Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, Greenwich Village, Brooklyn Heights, Bed-Stuy, the Lower East Side, and on and on.

Williamsburg has been cleared, "defoliated" of the Poles, Italians, Latinos, Carribeans, Artists, hipsters etc, that have helped shape the neighborhood and made it desirable for its' diversity. Now the bland, predominantly white 20 and 30 somethings who have been overvitamined, over therapyed and over protected, have come to settle the neighborhood. This is a script for suburban living in an upscale neighborhood in Westchester, Long Island or New Jersey. The developers are the only people who stand to win unless future buyers rethink their place in NYC community life and bravely renounce the collge dorm lifestyle of a place like Williamsburg.

25.

Aw, shoot, I thought you meant the U2 guitarist had moved to Brooklyn. That would be our best celeb yet.

26.

Keven, 9:55 - you are wrong.

Neighborhoods have always evolved rapidly. Once, the land under which Williamsburg is found was farmland. Very quickly, the farms were replaced with what was the City of Williamsburg. We're talking in about 10 years.

Harlem was farmland in 1860. By 1870 it was filled with shacks and basic wood tenaments. Beginning in 1885, it was redeveloped as a luxury community and all of the townhouses you see there today were constructed. Only 25 years later, it was beginning to be a black neighborhood - what was then considered a major decline. Another 15 years after that and it was abject ghetto.

Things change rapidly, all of the time. It is only your conservative leanings that have lead you, incorrectly, to believe that change is not a normal part of city life.

Your arguments regarding debt financing is of course valid - but that's the US, the most heavily leveraged country in the history of mankind. Rather than rip on Williamsburg kids trying to make a life for themselves, why don't you try and attack the real root of our problems: usury.

Usury must be banned.

27.

The Edge, can we talk about the Edge at all? Does anyone know if this tower will be on the water or similar to Northside Piers, it will be more in land. Any news about sales office or website, etc.?

Williamsburg is changing, but not as rapidly as Harlem in late 1800s.

28.

Change is good, naturally evolving change. Williamsburg is undergoing an unatural forced "wipe out" of a community. Harlem on the other hand is growing organically

I don't think that Kevin is consevative. Kevin wants to keep the darker, less elitist, artists and working class people in Williamsburg. They can't just be kicked out because a developer wants to make a killing. It is not right - enough developement.

29.

27, The Edge and Northside are exactly next to each other with very similar layouts for the towers. Both sites directly on the water, West of Kent. One tower in each parcel occupies a prime spot in the front next to the river, the other two are closer to the road with not as good views.

30.

All of the williamsburg waterfront buildings will knock everything else out of the water. They are the only secure investments in Williamsburg. They will never lose value. The rest of the developements in B-burg are a big risk. Bad vibes about Williamsburg are everywhere.

History has proved that water holds its property value so everyone in the water now!(I'm not a developer-just an informed Real estate guy).

31.

30, does that mean just an apartment in a building on the water, or a view of water? I have both, but curious.

32.

The only problem is that the aptartments are very small and have low ceilings.

The Northside Piers building and the first Edge building will both be have their views blocked by the rest of their respective developments. It makes no sense to buy in these buldings.

The Mill will be the best building in Williamsburg.

The Bayard St. buldings could have been awesome, right on the park, but so far have failed to impress.

33.

Stay away from the Mill Building. There are more problems than you can imagine. First of all look at their website http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?requestid=10&bin=3062363&restore=1I
The number of violations is extraordinary. It will be interesting to see if they can get their c of o by the promised time. I have heard that people who are "in contract" will pull out if the time frame is not met and at this point that does not seem likely.

Many original tenants in the building now, and those who were forced out or bought out by the developers, speak of floods, fires and general ineptitude during the construction period. They tell of inexperienced workers who were unknowing about work to be done and proper construction proceedures. The developers were there but unable to provide guidance. Hence all the current violations.

In the near future the street density of north 3rd street between Wythe and Berry will be overwhelmingly crowded. Several large apartment buildings are being planned on the block. One will be directly across the street from the Mill Building, blocking out a significant amount of light.

The most important issue, as post # 30 informed real estate guy, has stated is - that location, location, location is the name of the game. The Mill building is not on the water, and as all the big money developers seem to know, that's all that counts if you want to make sure you don't lose your money in Williamsburg.

34.

JMZ & L - why would you want to pay those prices when those subways only service a small portion of Manhattan? Does anyone else think that resales will be affected by the number of people that would be working near those subway lines? Or will Williamsburg always trade at a discount to established neighborhoods of Brooklyn because of the transportation issue?

35.

Williamsburg will never be tops like Manhattan or even Brooklyn Heights which has many lines that go directly to Wall Street and all over Manhattan. Even Dumbo has great access to a lot of different Manhattan neighborhoods.

There is no getting away from it - Williamsburg has transportation issues, a overcrowded L line and the geographically limited JMZ. Transportation is an important factor in choosing a neighborhood. That is why Williamsburg is a discount sub prime neighborhood and will not trade as well as other neighborhoods will in resale.

36.

A transfer on the JMZ or L seems shorter to anywhere in Midtown than sitting on ANY train that goes directly to Brooklyn Heights, Downtown Brooklyn or anywhere else out that way.

Same diff to me, just seems like Williamsburg is a new option, not some failed experiment.

37.

Hi. My name is Hater. I HATE everything. I HATE people who move to Williamsburg because it's a nice neighborhood with convenient access to Midtown where people can pay half of what Manhattan costs and 3/4 of what DUMBO and Bklyn Heights costs.

I HATE these people. They are clearly posers in Klan robes trying to ethnically cleanse North Brooklyn while pretending to be hip. I HATE the buildings they are moving into. I HATE that they would dare make a new start in a part of town other than Uptown Manhattan.

HATE HATE HATE.

38.

matt dillon, you're a white banker that loves Mo Pitkins and Murray Hill. You're such a fucking prick! Shaking in your boots at the sight of a hispanic. No wonder you pricks get mugged. Because the sight of your chest tightening up when you're in a hispanic neighbourhood is enough for anyone to want to kick the shit out of you. You fucking pussy. And that goes to the rest of you see you en tee's that feel the same way.

Oh god, you are so easy to hate and predict. I bet you go on holiday to mexico but stay on your Sandals resort right. Thats right all, this is the new face of willy burg. I hope to god that young thugs hang outside your shitty looking condos just intimidating the fuck out of you. No touching or saying shit, just being there. Then what you gonna do? Call the cops. Ugh, piss off

39.

Brooks, you're such a fucking tool (or real estate boker).

40.

Gee, Kevin, you know what's so great about you... if you would have used the term BLACk or LATINO instead of WHITE, you would have been branded a racist and insentitive. Your diatribe aimed at the only demographic that it is still okay to openly denegrate (i.e. white males in their 20s/30s) reveals just how tired and banal your viewpoint really is.