Urbanity Without Advertecture

1.

How refreshingly FABULOUS. Why are other cities more progressive than NYC. I hate that.

2.

I FSBO'd my Village loft in October of 2006 for $2.5MM, and the broker's fee in that case would have set me back $150,000 of AFTER TAX dollars. That chunk of change was enough to make me consider FSBO. We had carefully comped the neighborhood and building (I was coop president at the time), did a very nice website, and sold in thirteen days with a three way bidding war.

I have nothing against good brokers, but there was no way that I was going to give anyone $150,000 of after tax dollars without at least trying to do it on my own with an excellent real estate attorney.

I think FSBO is a good fit in certain situations where we're talking about giving up extravagant amounts of after tax money.

3.

one of my favourite things about cuba when i visited was the lack of out door advertising... only on the touristy cabs would you see any advertising... you could drive for an hour on the highway and see 3 signs... wonderful!

4.

You people are whacked.

Advertising creates millions of jobs, helps the economy & etc.

Yes, I do realize there are a bunch of illegal signs, but the people who are playing by the law should not have to suffer.

What would you think if you worked in the industry? or your parent's? etc. Then I bet you wouldn't complain.

5.

#4, Letting your dog shit on the sidewalk or throwing cigarette butts wherever you wants creates lots of jobs too. Wouldnt you be a little happier if people would just clean up after themselves, then to see some guy running around with a broom everywhere because some slab can't.

Just because it creates jobs doesnt mean it is good.

Walk around the city/u.s.a. and tell me of all the advertisments that get subconciously feed into your brain of how you as a consumer should be, what of those products do you actually need vs. the industries subconcious billion dollar studies on making you think you need them.

6.

if you're weak minded enough to let advertisements influence you so heavily then then there are probably many more challenges in life for you to worry about.

7.

I FSBO'd my Village loft in October of 2006 for $2.5MM, and the broker's fee in that case would have set me back $150,000 of AFTER TAX dollars. That chunk of change was enough to make me consider FSBO. We had carefully comped the neighborhood and building (I was coop president at the time), did a very nice website, and sold in thirteen days with a three way bidding war.

I have nothing against good brokers, but there was no way that I was going to give anyone $150,000 of after tax dollars without at least trying to do it on my own with an excellent real estate attorney.

I think FSBO is a good fit in certain situations where we're talking about giving up extravagant amounts of after tax money.

8.

I FSBO'd my Village loft in October of 2006 for $2.5MM, and the broker's fee in that case would have set me back $150,000 of AFTER TAX dollars. That chunk of change was enough to make me consider FSBO. We had carefully comped the neighborhood and building (I was coop president at the time), did a very nice website, and sold in thirteen days with a three way bidding war.

I have nothing against good brokers, but there was no way that I was going to give anyone $150,000 of after tax dollars without at least trying to do it on my own with an excellent real estate attorney.

I think FSBO is a good fit in certain situations where we're talking about giving up extravagant amounts of after tax money.

9.

I don't think #4 takes it far enough. I personally believe we need more ads. They ad so much color to an otherwise grey and drab landscape.

All hail our savior, advertising! And cue up the stirring, patriotic march-style music while you're at it.

10.

I dont think it has anything to do with a weak mind.

Lets replace Corporate America with some dictator for an example - if your weak mind could imagine this.

Lets say this dictator posts messages and sayings all over the place regarding what he/she believes or thinks you should act. Whether this dictator is right or wrong it is invading, cause it does get into your psychy (sp?).

Ok replace dictator messages with Corporate america messages, just because they have the $ to place these messages all around the city to tell you to buy their product.

Whats the difference. What if you dont want to listen to what the dictator says, and what if i dont want to listen to what Corporate america thinks i should buy. Its the same premise.

11.

Advertisers con you
Into thinking you're the one who
can do what's never been done,
Who can win what's never been won,
Meanwhile,
Life goes on
all around you.

12.

Now all they have to do is relieve the unbearable overcrowding, provide working sewers/utilities, reduce crime so you can walk the neighborhood without fear of kidnapping, etc and they may be onto something.

13.

Advertising = Subtle Brainwashing

Why do you think Vance Packard named his million-book best seller on advertising, The HIDDEN PERSUADERS?

See Wikipedia:
"His million-selling book, The Hidden Persuaders, about media manipulation of the populace in the 1950s was a forerunner of pop sociology: science-based thinking without the weight of detail or eloquence, geared for sale to the mass market.

In The Hidden Persuaders, first published in 1957, Packard explores the use of consumer motivational research and other psychological techniques, including depth psychology and subliminal tactics, by advertisers to manipulate expectations and induce desire for products, particularly in the American postwar era. The book questions the morality of using these techniques."

14.

bad idea. typical from socialists who hate those who generate weath.

15.

#13

And, the advertisers have only gotten better at it in the past 50 years.

Witness the comments here of those who now believe it is a good thing.

Either they are brainwashed or shills from the industry.

16.

Exactly # 14.

You people are angry with people who make millions. Why?

What is sooooooooo bad about people making a very comfortable living????

Do ads hurt people? Do they inflict pain? Exactly.

Not one ad on a building or billboard structure has EVER 'caused an accident here in NYC. And, I beleive it has never happened anywhere in the US.

So what if these corporate giants are using outdoor advertising to "con" you into buying their product???

17.

New York City Street Furniture Franchise Threatened by Recent State Supreme Court Decision
NEW YORK, Mar. 30 /PRNewswire/ --

NEW YORK, March 30 /PRNewswire/ -- The exclusive street furniture advertising contract given by the City to Cemusa, a Spanish-owned advertising company, has been put at risk by a recent State Supreme Court decision. An anti-trust case brought by OTR Media Group against the City and Cemusa, was addressed recently by New York State Supreme Court Justice Eileen Rakower when she gave a green light for anti-trust proceedings to continue. The court rejected Cemusa's efforts to dismiss the anti-trust claim.

This decision jeopardizes the exclusive multi-billion dollar contract for ad space on city street furniture, affecting New York City's 3300 bus shelters, 330 newsstands and public toilets. The contract with Cemusa has been in effect since the summer of 2006.

In October 2006, New York outdoor advertising company OTR Media Group filed suit claiming a violation of State anti-trust laws -- by contending that the City's local law restricting certain outdoor media in combination with its 20-year contract with Cemusa, will injure the free-market for outdoor advertising by reducing the number of signs available to rent and thereby pushing up the cost of advertising -- particularly for government owned signs.

"When we filed this case, members of the advertising industry knew it had merit because of how this contract violated anti-trust law and negatively impacted private firms' opportunities to advertise. I am hopeful that we will prevail and the outdoor advertising industry, advertisers, landlords, unions and small businesses will be better off as a result," said Ari Noe, CEO of OTR Media Group.

18.

Those Socialists were elected with 62% of the vote, way more than that bum Bush - your hero, no doubt.

19.

Lula- Bush is not my hero.

Now, what do you have to say?

What is the next neo-hippie socialist comment you want to throw at me?

Can you tell me what you do for a living that is so high and mighty?

I work in law.

20.

"typical from socialists who hate those who generate weath."

hey, numbnuts, seems to me Sao Paulo mayor Gilberto Kassab is from the Democratic Party, a center-right Christian Democrat Party i.e. not a socialist. Thirty seconds of Google would have told you that.

Any other fascinating insight into Brazilian politics you (and Gridskipper) want to give us?

21.

#19

With all that wonderful education you have i would expect you to be able to think a little bit for yourself and obviously not what the U.S. culture has led you to believe and be ok with.

It has nothing to do with inflicting pain or making millions of dollars you need to get passed that.

It has everything to do with us as people living in an environment where those with the most power or money in the u.s. do not litter our landscape for their own well being.

When you look at Iraq pre latest war. Did you not see symbols of Saddam Hussein littered across the landscape of that country. A man who arguably did good and bad things to his people, posting messages of how great he was and images of how great he was in all public spaces where it was a part of those peoples lives day in and day out. Now take a deep breath and do you think that every single product or every single thing that Corporate America does is good or they deserve to have the same ability to be a part of every second of our lives when we decide to walk outside just because we need to get from point a to point b.

If you cant make that connection then you wasted your money on your education. Does that mean I want to have socialism throughout the world - NO. I just means that when I walk to my parents or girlfriends apartment I dont think i need to be pushed or persuaded to buy 10 different products, i just want to take a walk. Who gives these corporations or the people who are profitting a ton of money the right to make that money just because they own a building that is in the path of my walk. Why should they be allowed to do that.

My walk is not owned by anyone.

22.

And any president that sits down with Bush to accelerate free trade is not much of a Socialist, either. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing depends on your political viewpoint.

23.

Hey #19:

"Kill all the lawyers" - W. Shakespeare

24.

Hey #23- would u like to ban lawyers as well?

Go play in traffic.

25.

Also, do you want to ban advertisements on tv? internet? radio?

Who gives these corporations or the people who are profitting a ton of money the right to make that money just because they own a building that is in the path of my walk. Why should they be allowed to do that.

The DOB provides that right.

And just because you own a building CURRENTLY does not give you the right to just throw up a sign on your property. Hopefully, after OTR wins this case against the city, things will be better for landlords and businesses and advertisers.

26.

No I choose on my own to listen to a particular radio station or watch a television program. That is a choice i make and is not something that is within my natural surroundings.

I walk or take transportation to work or to visit friends in family in an environment that shouldnt belong to starbucks or the gap.

That area belongs to the community of the people that live there.

Ok well why dont i just paint my entire house the latest miller lite campaign? It would be awesome cause I would make a ton of money. After all that is all that matters right?

You think everyone in my community would be happy that i got rich off that and wouldnt care?

27.

Funny- i've been to Sao Paulo twice in the last 16 months (once before and after the ban) and didn't notice. But i DID notice how it always makes Manhattan look like the gilded city- and how many of the abandoned, business-free buildings have graffiti going up to the 7th, 8th floor. And how it reminds me of a cross between S. central LA and the Bronx. Progress indeed!

Don't get me wrong- great people, some beautiful neighborhoods, but there's something fundamentally wrong with that economy. You think the gap between the rich and poor is bad here? Get yourself on a plane.

An advertising industry might actually help them develope a middle class...

28.

Give me a break you think one additional industry will make everything magicall there.

That has nothing to do with advertising and everything to do with local politics. Everyone knows that brazil has the largest gap between the rich and poor out of most any nation.

I am not saying advertising is all bad, but ultimately there needs to be a balance. My life is already inundated with images of Coca Cola, Starbucks, McDonalds, and the Gap.

Ask a kid in the U.S. to tell them who a picture of Abraham Lincoln is maybe 1% would know. Show them a picture of who Ronald Mcdonald is 100% would know. Not that i care it just goes to show you the priorities and reality of how much these ads really do control our thoughts.

Just something to think about - devils advocate.

29.

"Ask a kid in the U.S. to tell them who a picture of Abraham Lincoln is maybe 1% would know."

Care to back that statistic up?

There are better examples you could have (and should have) used.

30.

Please provide one then.

31.

http://www.newstarget.com/019633.html

Furthermore, according to a research study of American children, 96 percent of those surveyed could recognize Ronald McDonald, making him the second most identifiable fictional character after Santa Claus. All this has led Schlosser to conclude, "The impact of McDonald's on the way we live today is hard to overstate."

32.

advertising generally is commercial speech protected by the first amendment. so no such luck here.

33.

Some of these people here are reading way too much Adbusters. I know it's "romantic" and "hip" to "expose the man's plan" and "revolt against corporate propaganda" but at some point you need to realize that being anti-advertising is just and outlet for being overly idealistic and anti-establishment, and at some point you should realize that there are far more important issues in the world that actually matter, and this preoccupied energy would be better spent in these areas.

Advertising is never going to go away. The modern concept of advertising, including "advertecture" has been a part of our environment for over 200 years and has contributed to shaping not only Western culture, but almost all others as well. I must admit that as a graphic designer I have speculated that much of the ire towards advertising may have some to do with the seaming loss of tastefulness, style and grace that we have seen in the past 30-40 years. A neon dancing Mr. Peanut in Times Square 70 years ago is not the same thing as a spot-lit vinyl Abercrombie ad today.

All this is really moot though, as with in any capitalistic society, businesses and companies will continue to promote themselves and their products through advertising. Whether this is "evil" is purely subjective, nothing more. Advertising, even narrow-cast advertising is viewed as almost being required and is a large contributer to what makes the economy "go." Whether it's losing it's effectiveness is debatable, but rest assured as a great PBS documentary entitled "The Persuaders" pointed out, that just makes them work that much harder to grab our attention, and I honestly have no problem with that. I don't know what all this "I've been bombarded by McD's and GAP ads since I was a child" business is. So what. I don't think anyone is worse for it. (There are understandable extremes, but I think those are driven by preexisting feelings towards inner acceptance and innate desires, and the effect of advertising is arguable.) Personally, I think these people just like complaining, because a person with something critical and extreme to say is utilizing a way of feeling and keeping a youthful spirit and not "turning into their father" or a materialistic American.

Anyways, regardless of whether we want to admit it, advertising is the product of a lot of human talent in many fields including photography, illustration, language, communication, writing, design, typography... and at the very least would be a huge absence of creative expression and outlet if suddenly eliminated.

"It's Shake and Bake, and I helped!"